Fix Old Routes Before Bolting New Climbs

George Mwrote:

Puppies and pineapples, trolling and bolting

this ain't trolling... this is more like fishing with floating cheese bait

Pineapple Fan Girlwrote:

Kinda grinds my gears when people bolt new “not classic” climbs when a bunch of old climbs need to have their gear replaced. Rant over.

1. Chop the bolts. 
2. Pretend you weren’t the one and loudly announce your displeasure on the forums that the bolts got chopped
3. Stoke the fire of the threads, and weaponize the rage
4. Congrats: you've successfully started a bolting war. Someone will start a gofundme and people will donate, and those bolts will get replaced in no time

Pineapple Fan Girlwrote:

With the proliferation of poorly done routes alongside excellent old ones, it seems to me that some developers are more interested in the glory of first ascents than in creating quality climbs. 

I do FAs for pretty much the same reasons I climb. It's challenging, fun, takes me to great places, etc. Am I going to spend most of my time and money on rebolting routes or doing my own? I'm going to do my own. I have replaced bolts on popular climbs, but that's just work. It's rewarding to know I've improved a classic/popular climb and I take pride in replacing bolts with high quality gear (especially anchors) and workmanship. But it's an entirely different experience to find a good line, see if it goes, figure out where to put the bolts, etc. It's far more challenging, rewarding, and fun than replacing bolts. It's my time and my money spent on gear. I'll do exactly what I want. Which is 80-90% new routes.

Q: Whats the difference between bolting a new route and fixing an old route?

A: One your friends think you’re an idiot and botched it, the other everyone thinks you’re an idiot and botched it. 

Kinda grinds my gears when people post a new “shitty” troll thread when a bunch of old troll threads need to be necro-ed. They should do better. Rant over.

Stileswrote:

The ASCA has an open ear to knowledgeable suggestions. 

Here's an impression of PFG:  "The what?"

Hart Fuffer wrote:

Rain drops on sandstone and bluetooth speakers,
Bright shiny copperheads and old approach sneakers,
REI packages tied up with strings...
These are a few of my favorite things.

One foot long tick marks and unleashed crag poodles,
Getting so pumped my arms are like noodles,
Crusty old trad dads with their rack on a sling...
These are a few of my favorite things.

none of these verses is about puppylovr pineapple fan

I think we have enough new routes. Let’s do a 1-in 1-out policy. For every new bolt you add, you have to chop another. 

Gloweringwrote:

I do FAs for pretty much the same reasons I climb. It's challenging, fun, takes me to great places, etc. Am I going to spend most of my time and money on rebolting routes or doing my own? I'm going to do my own. I have replaced bolts on popular climbs, but that's just work. It's rewarding to know I've improved a classic/popular climb and I take pride in replacing bolts with high quality gear (especially anchors) and workmanship. But it's an entirely different experience to find a good line, see if it goes, figure out where to put the bolts, etc. It's far more challenging, rewarding, and fun than replacing bolts. It's my time and my money spent on gear. I'll do exactly what I want. Which is 80-90% new routes.

That seems fair, maybe I was too harsh. But I still would say that people should rebolt before finding a “good” three bolt route.

This thread has everything that makes MP what it is. Nothing. 

Pineapple Fan Girlwrote:

That seems fair, maybe I was too harsh. But I still would say that people should rebolt before finding a “good” three bolt route.

The incentives just aren't there. People do route development because it's fun. Hardly anyone thinks route maintenance is fun. 

If you want to see more route maintenance start celebrating route maintainers. Jim Thornburg would be a good start; dude has replaced more bolts than many route developers have placed in totality. 

Bobby Hutton is another. These guys will never toot their own horn but they're pillars of the NorCal climbing and route maintenance communities. 

I find their work more inspiring personally than whatever Ondra or Megos sent recently, so it is apparently possible to think in such a way (although it may require being incredibly odd). 

If OP pays me a salary I will rebolt any route they want.

If they double it I will make Snake Dike into the 5 star sport climb it was always meant to be.

Your move pineapple.

This thread seems like a good time to put a plug out there for ASCA. People that don't know how to rebolt can make donations so the people that are doing the rebolting don't have to pay for the gear out of their own pockets.

https://safeclimbing.org/

Ricky Harlinewrote:

The incentives just aren't there. People do route development because it's fun. Hardly anyone thinks route maintenance is fun. 

If you want to see more route maintenance start celebrating route maintainers. Jim Thornburg would be a good start; dude has replaced more bolts than many route developers have placed in totality. 

Bobby Hutton is another. These guys will never toot their own horn but they're pillars of the NorCal climbing and route maintenance communities. 

I find their work more inspiring personally than whatever Ondra or Megos sent recently, so it is apparently possible to think in such a way (although it may require being incredibly odd). 

I loved seeing Bobby on HowNot2, dude is just the total job.

If we want to glorify refitting routes I would totally watch videos of him fixing up a route and then climbing it.

Untapped market if you ask me. Probably not worth the time and effort costs to run a youtube channel for him though.

That said, maybe this thread topic has some merit after all, for some enterprising individual.

Maybe Pineapple could be the hero we didn't know we needed.

Route maintenance is usually undertaken by a local climbers association like RCA and Crag VT etc. Sometimes by a local individual who feels like the caretaker of a particular cliff but INMOP if there is a guide company that guides at that cliff the  Guide company should step up and take over bolt maintenance. They are the working pros making a living off that cliff.  They absolutely need to keep their AO shipshape. I like to maintain my own first ascents but rather dislike having to fix other peoples work if they did not use stainless bolts etc.  The Op comes off as a whiny entitled burden on society. 

Personally I prefer putting in new routes because I get so much less drama from the small minority of climbers who have negative opinions about most things including upgrading old hardware.