Falling on gear, who does it?

Was thinking about this last night. Was curious who has the leader shall not fall mentality, or who will take a fall on gear. Then I started thinking about the differences in gender for that too. Anyway, drop a line about your preference. 

probably less gender dependent and more area dependent. there’s hardmen who probably haven’t fallen in years climbing runout slabs somewhere, and hard ladies whipping every 5 seconds on perfect cams in indian creek

I took a ride two days ago onto an offset blue-yellow Mastercam in a horizontal. Clean vertical terrain, attentive belayer, appropriate soft catch. It was a great experience, and set me up for success later.

Sometimes I'll take a "therapy whip" to ensure that I feel good about trying hard on a route. I remember when I had been leading trad for a few years, I realized I didn't trust nuts as much as cams because I had never fallen on one. So I found a 120' finger crack on steep, hard stone and pitched off near the top onto a gold Stopper (backed up by a cam) until I felt good about it.

I've seen climbers of all chromosomal configurations overcome "gear fear" and become bold, competent trad climbers. But there's nothing inherently "good" about being a bold, competent trad climber, though. As long as people are having fun and respecting each other and the environment, I'm as happy as a clam in a vegan bake shop. :-)

It's terrain dependent. The crazy thing is whipping on gear is actually easier on harder climbs, that tend to be more vertical/overhangning. As opposed to low angle climbs with ledges and slabs and stuff to worry about. 

If I didn’t trust my gear to fall on I wouldn’t trust my anchors either.

Just don’t fall 

F r i t zwrote:…I realized I didn't trust nuts as much as cams because I had never fallen on one.”

Under the same placement conditions for both, I’ve always felt far better about falling on a stopper rather than cam. Much simpler…no moving parts.

I fall on gear far more often than I’d like. 

I have always had a weird relationship with falling, it's not that I don't trust the gear I just hate the sensation of falling, can't handle the adrenaline makes me feel ill. It's held back my climbing a lot, doesn't matter whether it's sport or trad, bouldering seems to be fine.

Interestingly I am able to climb way way above my gear, solo, etc, as long as I feel secure, this has let me climb up to 7c+ and solo 7b(secure style), I definitely gravitate towards crack but it cripples me on slab where you have insecure smears and the like. 

Sarah Zwrote:

who has the leader shall not fall mentality, or who will take a fall on gear. 

Two completely different situations.  The leader cannot fall mentality came from the reality of routes where the lack of natural protection meant long enough falls that there was a very good chance of getting hurt.  It did and still applies today for routes (like Andrew said) where the low angle terrain and lots of ledges etc means you're going to hit something hard.

Unwillingness to take a fall on gear has two camps in general, people who just don't like to fall (like Seb describes), and people who don't trust gear (usually beginners or people who don't climb very much).

I have a leader must not fall mentality when it would be stupid not to have it, and I'll take a fall on gear if it's going to be a more or less safe fall. (more on that below)

Sarah Zwrote:

 the differences in gender for that too. 

I have no idea about differences in gender, if there are any, but there is for sure a big difference between willingness to take a fall when you're younger vs. when you're older. By any metric, I'm now an old climber.  After 4 surgeries, a concussion, a broken wrist, a broken kneecap, and various severe ankle sprains, I'm now acutely aware of how easy it is to get fucked up climbing and how long it takes to heal. One result is that I'm less interested in taking falls.  I don't care anymore if I get the onsight or do something clean. If it seems like the move is going to be iffy, and there's a choice between a possible fall that could result in an ankle injury or pulling on a piece of gear (french free), I'll aid the move.  I'll even leave gear and bail from a route if I think I might get injured. This doesn't mean I no longer do "leader must not fall" routes, I still do that regularly, but I leave room for a bigger margin of error than I used to need in the ratings I choose.

phylp phylpwrote:

I have no idea about differences in gender, if there are any, but there is for sure a big difference between willingness to take a fall when you're younger vs. when you're older. By any metric, I'm now an old climber.  After 4 surgeries, a concussion, a broken wrist, a broken kneecap, and various severe ankle sprains, I'm now acutely aware of how easy it is to get fucked up climbing and how long it takes to heal. One result is that I'm less interested in taking falls.  I don't care anymore if I get the onsight or do something clean. If it seems like the move is going to be iffy, and there's a choice between a possible fall that could result in an ankle injury or pulling on a piece of gear (french free), I'll aid the move.  I'll even leave gear and bail from a route if I think I might get injured. This doesn't mean I no longer do "leader must not fall" routes, I still do that regularly, but I leave room for a bigger margin of error than I used to need in the ratings I choose.

I have a short list of climbers I want to be like when I grow up. You're on it. 

I hate falling.  I fell twice early in my climbing career.  Once I got some road rash, and once a hairline ankle fracture when I clipped a ledge on the way down. Anytime I fall it means I'm no longer in control of what happens. 

Also,  I do a lot of ice climbing,  and falling with  sharp pointy things is a recipe for disaster.  That has carried over to my rock leading.

Having said that, I trust my gear completely. Doing the occasional aid climbing will do that for you 

I prefer to climb within my limits so I don't fall, but it can happen. Falling is OK under the right circumstances if pro is good and I am not going to get injured, but I still prefer to not to put myself into that situation. My background is old school, I am male. I am also older, more brittle and less obsessed with climbing harder than I used to be.

I’m a middling rock climber and mediocre ice climber, and try not to fall on gear, but a few memories stand out.
- Partner fell on an existing piton. I caught him and the piton held, perhaps saving him from a broken back. Next time we did the climb, the piton was gone. Whew!

- Fell on a #3 Camalot deep in the backcountry of the Winds and it held. Whew!

- Fell on a small C3 and it popped. Fortunately the next one down held and I walked away with only a minor heel bruise from nipping the deck. Whew!

- Never have whipped on an ice screw. Whew!

Balewrote:

- Fell on a small C3 and it popped. Fortunately the next one down held and I walked away with only a minor heel bruise from nipping the deck. Whew!

Controversial hot take: C3s can be bomber but also can be much less stable than Z4s.   I tend to sling them long and watch out for placements where they can rotate (due to e.g. even a relatively short traverse).

When simuling, it’s the follower too who cannot fall. When approaching or descending via 4th class, you absolutely cannot fall either. There are 5.6 sport climb where you cannot fall without catastrophic injury in certain terrain. Even urban stairs are a no fall zone. You fall backwards, you’ll break your neck.

It entirely depends on what you are doing, it’s not just a matter of preference.

Your climbing ability is your first layer of protection, and no matter how good your placements are, in some situations, you just cannot fall without catastrophic injury because of ledges, sharp corners, runout, etc. 

That’s the scary part of climbing, but also part of what can make certain kinds of climbing fun, not just overcoming that fear and being confident in your climbing ability as pro, but also the constant decision making that manages the risks.

There is a difference between not taking falls and not trusting your gear.   I am an ice climber and I do a fair bit of soloing so I do Not fall.  I never was willing to take even a short fall on slab (taken a few BIG ones involuntarily)  because I am afraid that if I take a short slab fall by the bolt it will affect my head for the big runout after the bolt. Run out slab you can't afford to think falling is a possibility.  I am also 62 years old and don't bounce like I used to. I trust my gear but just don't need to take the risk of falling.  I took one lead fall this whole summer and that was on an FA and it was short.  If It was not an FA attempt I would not have taken that fall. If you want to chase grades on trad you will need to learn to trust your gear. best way to do that is do some aid climbing. 

  When I was younger and pushing it I found that I went in cycles. Several hundred falls over the course of a year or two , perhaps 3 where all the falls were casual. Either much easier than anticipated or exactly as anticipated . Then it happens. A seemingly routine fall goes south and ends up being a really close call. I have never been seriously injured but had a few very close calls.  30ft upside down stop with your head a few feet from the ground , etc.  Every single time I have had gear rip it was due to getting way too comfortable trusting micro gear or marginal gear. Do enough risky shit and risky shit starts to feel normal.  Its best to be a bit paranoid about this stuff,,,, 

The recent Seneca rope cutting fatality added to my paranoia.  The FA I did this summer has an overhang at the top to an off vertical finger crack. 95ft off the deck and the rock is pretty rough/sharp. I was absolutely not willing to fall on this stretch because it felt like the rope could get pinched on the carabiner against that rough rock... Could just be paranoia...  but maybe... 

I would much rather fall on gear that I placed myself than some old bolt that I really know little or nothing about (who placed it; hand drilled or power drilled; how long is it; how old is it . . .)

If you are somehow regarding "gear" as more sketchy than bolts, I'm not sure if that makes sense . . .

Something, something, bold and old.

I never got the disparity between so many folks  trad and sport level. I was always about the same gear or bolts as long as the gear is good. Most G rated gear climbs you can have a much shorter interval between placements than a sport climb of the same grade.