New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #31

Congrats, Ward!  That must be so gratifying.  Unlocking key beta, that turns into a send, especially on a FA - there's nothing like it.

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Li Huwrote:

After reading the previous posts, I feel very humbled, but encouraging that the young climbers here are sending 5.13b!

Not sure if you're referring to Lori's friend Jeremy, but I'd say more importantly, the not-so-young climbers here are sending hard stuff too!

Top rope climbed two of the hand and off width hand cracks at my gym.

One off width fist crack and 4 more off width finger cracks to go. Training to be able to red point the thin hand crack.

The term "off width" refers to the size that's bigger than fists, but smaller than a squeeze chimney.  So you can't have "off width fingers".  If you mean something that that's substantially wider than "X" (fingers, hands, fists) you would normally say "off X".  But if it's only a little bigger than the size, you would just say something like "big fingers", "cupped hands" or "rattly fists".

Cheers,

GO

GabeOwrote:

 

But if it's only a little bigger than the size, you would just say something like "big fingers", "cupped hands" or ....

Another common term for this size range is "inch-and-a-quarter" cracks.

GabeOwrote:

Congrats, Ward!  That must be so gratifying.  Unlocking key beta, especially on a FA - there's nothing like it.

Not sure if you're referring to Lori's friend Jeremy, but I'd say more importantly, the not-so-young climbers here are sending hard stuff too!

I meant Ward, that climb definitely looks to be 5.13a/b. He’s also younger.  

I boulder indoors quite a bit and “know” nearly every hold very well and the rough grades of climbs at all sorts of angles and recognise the movements needed. Of course, I mostly sport climb, and am learning to do the same there. But that picture of Ward post clip looks awesome! Nice compression move on 25mm overhung like that would definitely be a V7 to V8 or 5.13a/b at my gym.

The term "off width" refers to the size that's bigger than fists, but smaller than a squeeze chimney.  So you can't have "off width fingers".  If you mean something that that's substantially wider than "X" (fingers, hands, fists) you would normally say "off X".  But if it's only a little bigger than the size, you would just say something like "big fingers", "cupped hands" or "rattly fists".

What I was told by some resident crack experts…
Off width fist just means your fist rattles unless you cam or stack it. Typically in the 5.12 range of difficulty if overhanging.

Off hands rattles in a crack without twisting or extreme cupping and roughly in the 5.10 range, possibly 5.11 if overhung?

Off fingers means you’d need to finger lock or stack fingers, twist lock nearly works, but feet are opposing or compressing. There’s a crack rated 5.12c at our gym, and was told that’s pretty much a reasonable grade for it?

Some of them use cam sizes to describe them too, I believe?

In my youth, I used to climb hard cracks, but we never had names other than the grades for them. Many were graded in the 1960s so, 5.9     

It’s gotten quite technical now…

GabeOwrote:

The term "off width" refers to the size that's bigger than fists, but smaller than a squeeze chimney.  So you can't have "off width fingers".  If you mean something that that's substantially wider than "X" (fingers, hands, fists) you would normally say "off X".  But if it's only a little bigger than the size, you would just say something like "big fingers", "cupped hands" or "rattly fists".

Li Hu, I agree with Gabe.  I've never heard the term "off width fingers" or fists etc.  Off width has a specific definition as he says. The way I describe things to myself is  tips, fingers, ringlocks, tight hands, good hands, cupped hands, tight fist, fist, fist aided by forearm, then off width.

I climbed some cracks at The Post as part of my workout yesterday.  I undoubtably have different training goals than you do. Really my only training goal for the gym is to create a margin of strength/power reserve so that I don't fall and get hurt on the things I lead outside. In my case, unless the feet are a good, meaning a non-painful size, I don't bother to use feet/toes in the crack at any of the gyms.  I just don't see the training benefit. I already know what the technique is and how to use it. I already know that when I need to IRL, I can deal with the foot and toe pain, which by and large is 5 X less painful outside than on any artificial crack.  The training benefit to me of gym cracks is the very different upper body group muscles that come into play vs gym face climbing, especially the tiny muscles that only get worked with specific sizes. That kind of strength does go away if you don't use them and the gym cracks help me maintain them.

It’s not “off-width fingers,” but “off fingers” or “rattly fingers.”  It generally means a finger size that is not tight, but also not quite ringlocks. It is a common descriptor in places like Indian Creek. 

Frank Steinwrote:

It’s not “off-width fingers,” but “off fingers” or “rattly fingers.”  It generally means a finger size that is not tight, but also not quite ringlocks. It is a common descriptor in places like Indian Creek. 

Thanks, I likely mis-quoted. I meant “off fingers”. And two of the climbers are “Indian Creek” climbers, so I trust what they say. They helped coach me up the cracks.

Yup, “Rattly” for every crack there for me cause my hands and fingers are too fat for other methods.

Phylp, I’m just pushing myself to hit all the cracks until I can comfortably climb them all. So far, the hands ones are getting comfortable. The “leadable” one next to the 5.11a climbs is still very thin for me. Most people use the foot holds or hand holds as you suggested. The “no holds” thing is what one of my partners and I are challenging ourselves to do. We’re obviously a bit “machokist”.  

The 5.12c should go and the lieback next to it feels doable though  ”pumpy”

Working on my “balance”. My “coach” is having me check the best balance points t every move on easier climbs. The pinnacle of success was on this reachy climb. He told me to press my foot into a smear hold to dead point a hold. I’ll wear gloves next go around to get into the crack after that move.

Climbs are getting cool.

My buddy also red pointed this 5.12a climb that’s been bugging him. He’s happy.

Our “coach” is really helping us get better technique.

i just call it fingers and hands but then color code anything from green to blue camalot, bigger than blue camalot is wide.  bigger than #4 purple is desert wide.

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

i just call it fingers and hands but then color code anything from green to blue camalot, bigger than blue camalot is wide.  bigger than #4 purple is desert wide.

And then someone hands you a 4 that isn't purple!   I'm still surprised BD changed it.

I avoid gym cracks.  Phylp has a point about keeping certain muscles in shape  but really the technique is similar to riding a bike and I  don't want a staph infection. Gym cracks are filthy, nobody ever cleans them. 

M Mwrote:

And then someone hands you a 4 that isn't purple!   I'm still surprised BD changed it.

I avoid gym cracks.  Phylp has a point about keeping certain muscles in shape  but really the technique is similar to riding a bike and I  don't want a staph infection. Gym cracks are filthy, nobody ever cleans them. 

My hands were a bit bloody after the fist crack. I’m probably going to bring disinfectant with me as well.

Phylp makes sense, agreed.

Good point about the staphylococcus infection potential!

We’re planning upon using gloves and plenty of tape from now on.

Last time I was in Sacramento I visited one of our local climbing gyms and had an old familiar experience, the cracks and features are made of concrete and I had a feeling that I could easily break a finger or a toe jamming there. I realize real rock is also hard, but somehow it has a little more give and I’m more willing to work with it.

I have a little phobia about foot jams here in Joshua Tree. I’ve never seen anyone else get stuck, but I feel like I could – not just a foot but any other body parts. Last year I got my foot wedged in an odd place pretty high up off the ground and had a moment of panic because what does one do if you can’t retrieve your foot? I wouldn’t have minded abandoning my shoe, but not my whole foot.  I have heard mention of olive oil and I think it’s a real thing.  

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I bumped into a training method called Samsara Experience. “You’re training like a bodybuilder doing repetitive 2-dimensional robotic movements and expecting to move athletically in the mountains. Instead your training has to reflect the natural patterns of human movement.”

I like everything I’m seeing on the videos and going to give it a try. Seven day free trial sounds like enough time to explore it.

—-

I went with Tony to meet with his vascular surgeon about his aneurysm. I am just mind blown by this kind of medicine and trying to figure out how to be supportive, at the same time knowing I’m headed in an opposite direction.

The young surgeon breezed in big smile— “it’s an aneurysm all right and it’s gotta go.” But he’ll use a very high tech stent that gets manufactured especially for Tony’s aorta and specific aneurysm. They go in through the groin so there’s no cutting. He will spend the night in the hospital and then he’s done. that’s gonna happen in the next week or so.   

So Tony, pushing it as always, wanted to know how soon after that could he get his hips done? The surgeon thought about it for a minute and said “I’d give it a couple weeks.” WHAT???  Seriously?  

meanwhile, I wrote to my sport medicine doctor at Kaiser saying that I don’t know how to accommodate age 71. Things are changing and not necessarily for the better. He wrote back a few words of wisdom: “ all athletes do wind up with a new normal after every birthday.” I really appreciated those words. I am trying to deal with diabetes and celiac more organically with the least amount of drugs. I certainly don’t want surgeries, sleeping pills, antidepressants unless I actually need them.

I don’t know how you all deal in your relationships. Are your wives /husbands all in the same game or do they also have no idea what you’re up to?  I am trying to accept how Tony sees life – he was full throttle through his first 45 years and really not much has changed. He has less than zero interest in “health“ protocols and he has a lot of patching up to do in his later years.  But I also need him to recognize how hard I am trying to get out on the rock and stay out despite some significant challenges. It ain’t nothing.  

I had the best tomato of the summer last night. I thought of Jan and hope all his tomatoes were this good. The jidori chicken arrived and now I have a couple shots at creating La Copine’s chicken recipe.    

Lori Milaswrote:

Last time I was in Sacramento I visited one of our local climbing gyms and had an old familiar experience, the cracks and features are made of concrete and I had a feeling that I could easily break a finger or a toe jamming there. I realize real rock is also hard, but somehow it has a little more give and I’m more willing to work with it.

I have a little phobia about foot jams here in Joshua Tree. I’ve never seen anyone else get stuck, but I feel like I could – not just a foot but any other body parts. Last year I got my foot wedged in an odd place pretty high up off the ground and had a moment of panic because what does one do if you can’t retrieve your foot? I wouldn’t have minded abandoning my shoe, but not my whole foot.  I have heard mention of olive oil and I think it’s a real thing.  

The worst body part to get stuck is the knee, probably because there is so little give.  There is a climb in Eldo which, I'm told, has so many people get a knee stuck in it that the rangers keep a container of dish-soap ready to go for the inevitability of it happening again.  When my wife did the climb she brought her own little dish-soap on her rack, just in case.  Fortunately it was not needed.  :)

However I did do a trip to Indian Creek once, where a member of our party who was very gung ho, but not terribly experienced with crack climbing, got her knee good and stuck.  I wound up climbing up and rescuing her.  We didn't have soap on us, but we did have scissors, and her pants leg had to be sacrificed.  That and a fair bit of water, plus me climbing above her to place a cam above her that she could pull up on, while I shoved up on her butt and her leg from below finally gave her the leverage to get the stuck knee out.  Sore but undamaged.

Typically there's really little to worry about with jams.  They do sometimes need to go out the way they went in, though.  Which is often up.  And if you've run out of "up", which happens from time to time in climbing, you could be in a bit of a bind.  That's when it pays to know a bit about improvised aiding.

Started prepping for our trip to the Gunks this weekend.  Very excited!

GO

Lori - it should be a very quick recovery with the AAA repair (hopefully that eases your mind). Really glad it was discovered and he’s getting it fixed! With no open abdominal incision there is minimal muscle/tissue disruption. He may be kept on meds to keep his blood pressure low for awhile to protect the graft - not sure what the current protocols are. Wish him the best from me and Jim! And to you also! 

Out of curiosity, what are the websites or YouTube channels you think has helped you improve your climbing knowledge the most?

Climbing technique itself could be a whole separate category, but for the gear/anchor/technical stuff, I like…

—HowNot2

—Alpine Savvy (Get skilled tab… I’m now paying the small monthly fee.)

—Very strong honorable mention for phylp phylp’s collection of stuff to know to avoid accidents. 

Daniel Joderwrote:

Out of curiosity, what are the websites or YouTube channels you think has helped you improve your climbing knowledge the most?

Climbing technique itself could be a whole separate category, but for the gear/anchor/technical stuff, I like…

—HowNot2

—Alpine Savvy (Get skilled tab… I’m now paying the small monthly fee.)

I enjoy HowNot2, and some Lattice climbing videos.

Most are not relevant cause of the high level of climbing being focused upon.

—Very strong honorable mention for phylp phylp’s collection of stuff to know to avoid accidents. 

Agree, but to be reading climbing accidents at bed time?

I am so backwards and it's been so long since I have been to the desert that I don't really know what the new bigger sizes are. Did they put a gray in-between blue and purple making the purple bigger?

It was easier when cracks were listed in Friend sizes. Of course, ever since the Camalot patent expired, Friend sizes became obsolete. 

Frank Steinwrote:

It was easier when cracks were listed in Friend sizes. Of course, ever since the Camalot patent expired, Friend sizes became obsolete. 

The original friends or the cable types?   

The one size that I don't think camalots cover unless they changed it? is between red and gold. A 2.5 friend or a 2.5 Hugh Banner was the perfect transition between red camalot and gold camalot and there are two climbs at my old local crag that only protect with that ancient red Hugh Banner and not with any BD size that I am aware of? 

Li Huwrote:

The original friends or the cable types?   

Any single axle Friends