Terrible big toe pain with off width practice in gym (Movement Sunnyvale)

I’ve just started working on the offwidth at Movement Sunnyvale and I can not get past the start without excruciating pain on my big toe from caming it into the corner of the off width (foot outside the off width I’m using to push my self up) Am I doing something totally wrong or is off width supposed to be this fucked up?

the offwidth is slightly smaller than the length of my shoe from toe to heal, but then narrows further up

Grayson Gwrote:

I’ve just started working on the offwidth at Movement Sunnyvale and I can not get past the start without excruciating pain on my big toe from caming it into the corner of the off width (foot outside the off width I’m using to push my self up) Am I doing something totally wrong or is off width supposed to be this fucked up?

the offwidth is slightly smaller than the length of my shoe from toe to heal, but then narrows further up

Like with all crack, a little nerve damage is key to a good time.

is off width supposed to be this fucked up

Yeah. The reason it is called "off width" is because it is "off" the "width" for climbing lol.

Try some other approaches with your legs: calf / thigh locking really helps me, but you usually can't get a proper calf lock on most indoor offwidth cracks since they are too shallow. Many diagrams and images online for this.

The most important thing for offwidth climbing is an Instagram account. 

Are you talking about that squeeze chimney type thing?

Have you tried t-stacking your feet?

What shoes and relative sizing are you using? Based on your ticks, I'm assuming you know not to wear your most performance-oriented shoes when you're heel-toeing, but it's worth checking.

Hi Grayson, I am an old Valley offwidth guy. What kind of shoes are you wearing? And are you making contact with the top of your big toe, or the side (would be inside edge of foot)? I would be talking about the outside foot. 

Also, usually you should be, or I would be, pushing up with both feet. There are variations in technique though. 

Edit:

I see Fritz just beat me to the shoe question. That's a sign he actually has climbed offwidth cracks! 

Eric Craigwrote:

Hi Grayson, I am an old Valley offwidth guy. What kind of shoes are you wearing? And are you making contact with the top of your big toe, or the side (would be inside edge of foot)? I would be talking about the outside foot. 

Also, usually you should be, or I would be, pushing up with both feet. There are variations in technique though. 

Edit:

I see Fritz just beat me to the shoe question. That's a sign he actually has climbed offwidth cracks! A good thing. 

Don’t be fooled, Fritz is just a board Goat.

as for OP. That ow in the backroom of Sunnyvale has an uncomfortable spot for most everyone…except maybe Mei. You see an old asian lady in gardening gloves at the the gym climbing cracks, ask her. She is pretty decent at crack.

John Clarkwrote:

Don’t be fooled, Fritz is just a board Goat.

as for OP. That ow in the backroom of Sunnyvale has an uncomfortable spot for most everyone…except maybe Mei. You see an old asian lady in gardening gloves at the the gym climbing cracks, ask her. She is pretty decent at crack.

Ok then. But I am not. And shoes/fit definitely make a difference, especially comfort wise. Although a certain amount of discomfort is going to happen, individual dependent, until some experience is gained. This is true for most types of crack climbing. 

And thank you. 

btw the OW in question is rated 5.9+
so this aint no beginner walk in the park.  This is real deal OW.

The beginning doesnt feel good on my big toe either, gets better as you get higher

does anyone know if "trial by fire" was affected by the ahwahnee climbing closures? This could be a good practice route.

Tipped out heel-toes can be painful. Trying foot stacking for a few feet off the ground. It's pretty comfy done that way.

F r i t zwrote:

What shoes and relative sizing are you using? Based on your ticks, I'm assuming you know not to wear your most performance-oriented shoes when you're heel-toeing, but it's worth checking.

I’m using Air Tommys (TC pro)

Eric Craigwrote:

Ok then. But I am not. And shoes/fit definitely make a difference, especially comfort wise. Although a certain amount of discomfort is going to happen, individual dependent, until some experience is gained. This is true for most types of crack climbing. 

And thank you. 

I’ve never had a foot jam in a crack hurt this bad, hence the post. Seems like this is somewhat normal tho

I’d like to do the steck saltathe and East but of Higher cathedral rock without dying next year so I gotta get my OW on

Grayson Gwrote:

I’ve never had a foot jam in a crack hurt this bad, hence the post. Seems like this is somewhat normal tho

Have you tried the Belmont OW? That geometry of that thing somehow destroys my big toe far worse than any other crack.

Austin Donisanwrote:

Have you tried the Belmont OW? That geometry of that thing somehow destroys my big toe far worse than any other crack.

I have got up like 90% of that one and find it far easier. Interestingly enough my friends also say the Belmont one is harder but it feels much better to me

Grayson Gwrote:

I’ve never had a foot jam in a crack hurt this bad, hence the post. Seems like this is somewhat normal tho

I’d like to do the steck saltathe and East but of Higher cathedral rock without dying next year so I gotta get my OW on

Hi Grayson,  um, getting your "OW on" is kinda just a start, for those two great classics. I am not trying to put you off, just the opposite. What is required on those routes is good fundamentals for everything from fingers to foot and back chimneys, and the ability to blend techniques and transition between them. Getting some ow fundamentals worked out on a couple of gym cracks is as good a place to start as any. I think a steady diet of old school Valley short routes is what's really going to prepare you. Some of it can get done elsewhere, but there is no real substitution for Yosemite that is closer to the Bay Area. There's a few short ow and flair things in Castle Rock park, Fly By in Pinnacles comes to mind. There's a 5.7/8  flared chimney at Mt Diablo. I could work up a list of shorter Valley climbs for you if you like? I don't climb in gyms, others here obviously know these gym climbs. I've never met Austin, based on his many posts here and tick list I'd say he is a very good source. I mean, I started climbing in Yosemite in 1973, I did those routes before cams and sticky rubber,  and I would still listen to what Austin has to say. 

Blending techniques and transitions. They will make your day when you go up on NE buttress or the SS. Focus on acquiring the techniques,  because there's a technique for every width, and for every transition between widths. 

Eric Craigwrote:

That's a sign he actually has climbed offwidth cracks! 

Guilty as charged.

(2012. That's my partner; I always racked on a sling). 

 As a younger climber, there was a Kor route I really wanted to do that had a 160' pitch of 5.9+ wyde, so I paid my dues for a while on short stuff to make sure I could get up that in good style. Then I spent some time pursuing the wyde for its own sake. But when the next step became inversions, I didn't see the use. 

I like Coldplay's sophomore album as much as the next millennial, but dangling by the feet for that long never appealed to me. Maybe if I had the right hashtags I would have enjoyed it more.

It was too late, though; word was out, and my partners had already started giving me any pitch requiring a #4 or bigger. So beware, OP: once you set the precedent that you're willing to take the wyde pitches, you'll never see a splitter handcrack again ;-) 

Back to useful advice: your TCP's are comfort all-day fit, right? Flat toes? Socks make a big difference, in my experience. Do you have any stiff approach shoes you could try? And does your toe hurt outside of climbing, or only when you're trying to heel-toe?

F r i t zwrote:

Guilty as charged.

(2012. That's my partner; I always racked on a sling). 

 As a younger climber, there was a Kor route I really wanted to do that had a 160' pitch of 5.9+ wyde, so I paid my dues for a while on short stuff to make sure I could get up that in good style. Then I spent some time pursuing the wyde for its own sake. But when the next step became inversions, I didn't see the use. 

I like Coldplay's sophomore album as much as the next millennial, but dangling by the feet for that long never appealed to me. Maybe if I had the right hashtags I would have enjoyed it more.

It was too late, though; word was out, and my partners had already started giving me any pitch requiring a #4 or bigger. So beware, OP: once you set the precedent that you're willing to take the wyde pitches, you'll never see a splitter handcrack again ;-) 

Back to useful advice: your TCP's are comfort all-day fit, right? Flat toes? Socks make a big difference, in my experience. Do you have any stiff approach shoes you could try? And does your toe hurt outside of climbing, or only when you're trying to heel-toe?

My Tcs are mildly tight, if I don’t take them off for 13 hrs I will have minor nerve damage - always wear socks and take them off at belays.

I have a long term goal of doing free rider so I gotta get good at everything and off width is my weakest style rn and all my near term objectives have them. I’m tired of never leading them bc I’m so fucking scared 

To everyone else in the thread, thank you for the advice I’ll go try it out