Raed Zaed: ohm alternative?

I will say after a lot more use I am really prefereing the ZAED.  We are about a 50 pound weight difference or so.  When I belayed with a woman that was much smaller and almost an 80 pound difference I will say I don't think the ZAED provided enough friction in the system.  I have been using the OHM outside just do the fact we have some really run out bolts here in NC.  However, I think my confidence level is high enough with the ZAED that it will be my primary device moving forward. 

This is all on Level 2. 

I'm about 65 pounds heavier than my partner, we've been using an Ohm for several years, and my main complaints were 1) catches are quite hard 2) I'm either getting short roped, or I'm pulling up slack so slowly I might as well be short roped and 3) it's very heavy. The Zaed for me seems a vast improvement. On the medium setting, catches seem nice and soft, slack feeds much better, and it's of course substantially lighter (although that's admittedly mostly for carrying in my pack, so more a convenience). As stated upthread the Zaed tries to effectively equalize your weights (whereas the Ohm catches you itself). So, yes, my partner flies up when I whip, but only about as much as if she were belaying someone her own size. For someone less used to catching lead falls I can absolutely imagine that this would be disconcerting. It is for sure a downside that it functions only as a quickdraw til you've clipped the second bolt, but so far this seems very manageable.

I have Ohm 1 and the titanium Raed; used it for the first time last night at the gym.

Weight difference between my regular climber and myself is somewhere like #75. 

Main diff AFAICT:

- Ohm 1 offers more friction than Raed in mode 3; if its not MORE friction, its faster application of friction. I purposely didn't do any falls since I wasn't sure about the system but on takes and lowering, belayer felt more pull.
- She told me it's not that big a difference, but, I saw her get sucked into the wall on LOWERING once which worried me; it's probably her getting used to new device (since it only happened once)
- The Titanium Raed is so much lighter than Ohm!
- Raed does get stuck on overhangs/traverse or if there's a weird hold in the way (i.e. its banging against a hold when you are pulling on it), but its MUCH less than when OHM gets stuck.
- Knowing it doesn't work well until 2nd bolt is clipped seems fine in the gym, but I think it would kill my confidence when outdoors.

I think the sweet spot for the ZAED is 40-50 pounds.  Its on setting two, you literally don't notice it at all and provides enough resistance.  When I belayed with a lighter climber and had a 70-80 pound difference I didn't think it provided enough resistance. 

Billy Shin wrote:

- Knowing it doesn't work well until 2nd bolt is clipped seems fine in the gym, but I think it would kill my confidence when outdoors.

Outdoors, you could do what the manual asks you to do and preclip the second bolt with a clipstick. 

Biggi El wrote:

Outdoors, you could do what the manual asks you to do and preclip the second bolt with a clipstick.

Ha, haven't seen many outdoor climbs where I can get the second bolt too!

Brad Johnson wrote:

I think the sweet spot for the ZAED is 40-50 pounds.  Its on setting two, you literally don't notice it at all and provides enough resistance.  When I belayed with a lighter climber and had a 70-80 pound difference I didn't think it provided enough resistance. 

Did you try on setting 3 for a heavier difference? It's not just for overhangs

Brad Johnson wrote:

Ha, haven't seen many outdoor climbs where I can get the second bolt too!

You climb up to the first and go in direct, then stick the second. Honestly though if you take at 1 and still can’t make it to 2 you need to reevaluate getting on that route. 

Doug Chism wrote:

You climb up to the first and go in direct, then stick the second. Honestly though if you take at 1 and still can’t make it to 2 you need to reevaluate getting on that route. 

I'm fine at our weight difference now I don't even mind if it acts as a standard draw if there were to be a fall.  

K Go wrote:

Did you try on setting 3 for a heavier difference? It's not just for overhangs

I did but felt like it wasn't any better than the OHM.  However, now at the weight difference we are at 40-45 pounds I feel like its a perfect device! 

Brad Johnson wrote:

I'm fine at our weight difference now I don't even mind if it acts as a standard draw if there were to be a fall.  

It's actually a bit worse than a standard draw, since the cross pin can rotate it's closer to falling on a somewhat low efficiency pulley. So with a moderate weight difference you'd probably end up on the ground, hopefully slowly. 

K Go wrote:

It's actually a bit worse than a standard draw, since the cross pin can rotate it's closer to falling on a somewhat low efficiency pulley. So with a moderate weight difference you'd probably end up on the ground, hopefully slowly. 

Keep in mind that 80% of the friction in a rope/quickdraw setup is caused by the rope fibers rubbing on themselves due to the small bend radius at the rope/quickdraw interface. So I'd assume that the Zaed won't be much worse than a regular quickdraw. 

I weigh 50 pounds more than my girlfriend, and we exclusively used the Ohm 1 outdoors.  We found that if the second bolt was offset from a straight line to the third bolt, it would consistently lock up while lowering, not to mention when pulling up slack quickly to clip.

While lowering, the Ohm would lock up 3 or 4 times, I would have to unweight the rope and my girlfriend flick the rope to unjam it.  It was so bad I never made it to a project route where I take whippers.

She refuses to belay with an Ohm now.  A friend recommended the Zaed and will loan it to me to test.  He is 6'5" and outweighs most of his climbing partners, and says it works well for him.

Arlo F Niederer wrote:

I weigh 50 pounds more than my girlfriend, and we exclusively used the Ohm 1 outdoors.  We found that if the second bolt was offset from a straight line to the third bolt, it would consistently lock up while lowering, not to mention when pulling up slack quickly to clip.

While lowering, the Ohm would lock up 3 or 4 times, I would have to unweight the rope and my girlfriend flick the rope to unjam it.  It was so bad I never made it to a project route where I take whippers.

She refuses to belay with an Ohm now.  A friend recommended the Zaed and will loan it to me to test.  He is 6'5" and outweighs most of his climbing partners, and says it works well for him.

At your weight difference it will work great! 

For the US climbers interested in a ZÆD: hownot2 has them in their black friday sale during the next days: https://hownot2.com/products/zaed 

For climbers in Canada there are 2 options to buy a ZÆD now:

VertiCall: https://verticallstore.com/collections/vendors?q=RAED%20Climbing

and

ClimbOn Equipment: https://climbonequipment.com/collections/vendors?q=RAED%20CLIMBING 

Climb hard, Stephan from raed climbing. 

After using a friends ohm and getting slammed into the wall (hard catch that ohms are known for), I bought the Bauer Espressi and personally believe it provides a much softer catch by default, regardless of the belayers competence.

I’ve only used each device 2x so take this as a single anecdote based on very little data. 

Nate P wrote:

After using a friends ohm and getting slammed into the wall (hard catch that ohms are known for), I bought the Bauer Espressi and personally believe it provides a much softer catch by default, regardless of the belayers competence.

I’ve only used each device 2x so take this as a single anecdote based on very little data. 

How come you chose the Espressi over a Zaed? What is your weight difference? 

Biggi El wrote:

How come you chose the Espressi over a Zaed? What is your weight difference? 

Mainly due to the comments and reviews in this thread. I’d have to scroll back and re-read but believe the deal breaker for me was that Zaed needs a locking carabiner and doesn’t work until the bolt above is clipped.

The bolt above issue is present in the espressi but a locking caribiner isn’t required. 

I don't think the locker is absolutely required since they sell a non locker version

Nate P wrote:

Mainly due to the comments and reviews in this thread. I’d have to scroll back and re-read but believe the deal breaker for me was that Zaed needs a locking carabiner and doesn’t work until the bolt above is clipped.

The bolt above issue is present in the espressi but a locking caribiner isn’t required. 

The locker is for situations on the rock where the route traverses to the opposite direction of the carabiner's spine after the first bolt. You cannot turn around the Zaed to get the carabiner spine pointing in the direction of travel (which mitigates the quickdraw unclipping during a fall), which is why they like to ship it with a locking carabiner.

I use mine without a locking carabiner when climbing in the gym, and with an edelrid slider on the rock.