Mystery pin

Rapped off this strange pin the other day and don’t recognize it.
Anyone know what era it’s from? Seems euro maybe.

Could it be just a railroad spike?

Totally a railroad spike. The MC means medium carbon and was often placed under the manufacturer label which has been hammered flat. Glad you got down safely on it! 

looks likely to have come from this manufacturer Gerdau Ameristeel 

Dude that's ballsy. Especially since, judging by the photo, it looks you put significant outward force on it, but I'm just armchair quarterbacking here. Was it backed up by anything? What situation prompted having to use that thing? 

cubist Awrote:

Dude that's ballsy. Especially since, judging by the photo, it looks you put significant outward force on it, but I'm just armchair quarterbacking here. Was it backed up by anything? What situation prompted having to use that thing? 

Better than nothing at all.   Id rather have something that might hold over nothing that for sure won't hold lol.

Kevin Mokracekwrote:

Better than nothing at all.   Id rather have something that might hold over nothing that for sure won't hold lol.

I'd rather leave a nut myself

Matthew Bellwrote:

I'd rather leave a nut myself

Great if a nut placement is available.   If it’s not and all that is available is that rusty shitty peg I’ll take the rusty shitty peg over nothing at all.   Sometimes you just play the cards you are dealt. 

Eli Helmuth wrote:

Good way to die with that attitude. There's always a better option than rolling the dice.

Playing the cards you are dealt is not the same as rolling the dice, have you never played a board game?

Is this somehow more sketchy than old malleable iron ring pitons or pitons that Salethe forged himself or angles made out of old stovelegs?

I swear, most of you should stay in the gym

wivanoffwrote:

Is this somehow more sketchy than old malleable iron ring pitons or pitons that Salethe forged himself or angles made out of old stovelegs?

I swear, most of you should stay in the gym

I would definitely say it is more sketchy than those (unless you are talking about a pin that is completely rusted out, but I wouldn't trust one of those either). The taper on a rail spike is a lot more aggressive than that of a piton, so it will pull out far easier than a piton. Also, the taper on a piton extends the length of what is inserted into the rock, where as with the rail spike it only extends for a short distance, so the lever arm created by pulling on it would be much larger than on a piton. So with those two together you get more torque and a lower pullout force compared to a more piton shaped hunk of metal. The only thing going for the railroad spike is that the steal itself is probably going to be stronger than the other stuff you mentioned.. but that doesn't matter if it pulls out of the rock.

I have some "Mystery pins" I happened to find while walking on the railroad tracks near my home. 

I think I'm going to go to my local crag with a hammer and my mystery pins and see how good they work. 

Thanks for the beta!

Elaine Gilstromwrote:

I would definitely say it is more sketchy than those (unless you are talking about a pin that is completely rusted out, but I wouldn't trust one of those either). The taper on a rail spike is a lot more aggressive than that of a piton, so it will pull out far easier than a piton. Also, the taper on a piton extends the length of what is inserted into the rock, where as with the rail spike it only extends for a short distance, so the lever arm created by pulling on it would be much larger than on a piton. So with those two together you get more torque and a lower pullout force compared to a more piton shaped hunk of metal. The only thing going for the railroad spike is that the steal itself is probably going to be stronger than the other stuff you mentioned.. but that doesn't matter if it pulls out of the rock.

The taper at the end would have little/no contact with the rock. Driven that deep, the parallel sides of the railroad spike are where the contact is. So, there is no lever arm and the holding power is dependent on the shape of the crack. If the crack is sharply tapered the spike would be no good at all. If the crack was shallow tapered, it could be a good placement, It's hard to tell from the photo. 

And it only needs to hold rappel loads.

BTW, the railroad spike on my desk in front of me is 15mm wide and 150mm long under the head.

Wivanoff--Your comments are backed up by years of experience unlike a few others here, who I doubt have ever placed a piton.  Some of these posters are in their mid-20's, and probably have never even tested a piton with a hammer!  Just looking at an old piton placement, or in this case, a railroad spike, without testing it with a hammer, is pure conjecture, and NOBODY today brings a hammer on a climb unless they are doing a traditional big wall nail-up.  I have done many big-wall grade 6 climbs over a 60 year span, and also taught strength of material courses, using a hydraulic tensile strength testing machine. In an ideal situation, that railroad spike would hold a load of 20-30,000 pounds, given it's cross-sectional area.  Yes, modern pitons are made from Chrome-moly steel, but the eye on a lost arrow piton has a pretty small cross-sectional area compared to that monster rail road spike.

stephen arsenaultwrote:

Wivanoff--Your comments are backed up by years of experience unlike a few others here, who I doubt have ever placed a piton.  Some of these posters are in their mid-20's, and probably have never even tested a piton with a hammer!  Just looking at an old piton placement, or in this case, a railroad spike, without testing it with a hammer, is pure conjecture, and NOBODY today brings a hammer on a climb unless they are doing a traditional big wall nail-up.  I have done many big-wall grade 6 climbs over a 60 year span, and also taught strength of material courses, using a hydraulic tensile strength testing machine. In an ideal situation, that railroad spike would hold a load of 20-30,000 pounds, given it's cross-sectional area.  Yes, modern pitons are made from Chrome-moly steel, but the eye on a lost arrow piton has a pretty small cross-sectional area compared to that monster rail road spike.

FWIW, for over 40 years I have carried a Lowe Chock Tocker on my rack. While many complain about the weight it is worth it on alpine routes many of which have pins. I have tapped out and sometimes reset many a pin over the years. Other times when there is adequate natural gear it is just removed because people blindly trust them when they should not. Elaine's post demonstrates shows a fundamental lack of understanding of piton craft.

The tool is also great for removing stuck nuts as well as cams that have walked deep into a crack. 

Kevin Mokracekwrote:

Great if a nut placement is available.   If it’s not and all that is available is that rusty shitty peg I’ll take the rusty shitty peg over nothing at all.   Sometimes you just play the cards you are dealt. 

Absolutely. A rusty piton of uncertain quality, nothing else available. It's not an uncommon situation, and you just have to man up. 

or you make something else happen. 

WF WF51wrote:

Absolutely. A rusty piton of uncertain quality, nothing else available. It's not an uncommon situation, and you just have to man up. 

That’s an interesting look into another viewpoint. I’ve certainly rapped off of plenty of questionable “anchors.” But I’ve never viewed it as courageous or manly. Just the best bad solution available, and one I was grateful to have  work out well enough.

Almost always a better solution is to beef up the shitty anchor. It is very rare for there to be no other solutions. Certainly when I was younger it was simply a matter of being too cheap to back it up and following a stupid code of never leaving booty. Always collecting. Sometimes we are cold and tired and tell ourselves that everyone else raps off this so it must be good..  That's just being lazy and complacent.

Sep Mwrote:

That’s an interesting look into another viewpoint. I’ve certainly rapped off of plenty of questionable “anchors.” But I’ve never viewed it as courageous or manly. Just the best bad solution available, and one I was grateful to have  work out well enough.

My post was a mockery of the do-or-die attitude a few people espoused. 

Todd Berlier wrote:

0/10

No one is buying this shit, are they? 

Looks like a landscaping boulder in almostrad's backyard.

Todd, 

You greatly over estimate how much energy I’d put into trolling here.

It is in fact a railroad spike. I have a bunch of em I’ve been wanting to slam in to use as pro, and this rap anchor was the right fit.
I bounce tested it, and it was also backed up with a 2. It was plenty good enough but mostly just thought it would be cool.