New and experienced climbers over 50 #30

Lori Milaswrote:

Anyone wanna share their pre-and post retirement experiences?  

I had no problems transitioning to retirement from a 30 yr career as a middle school teacher and coach.

Stress level dropped to zero, sleep as long as I want and freedom to do what I want when I want. 

Built out a van for traveling purposes and once the wife retired hit the road.

Highlights include;

2 month National Parks tour in the western US. 

2 month cross country trip to Maine and back from NorCal.

Numerous summer coastal trips to N. Cal, Oregon and Washington to beat the Redding heat.

Lots of reading for pleasure, instead of student reports, class and homework.

Fishing, hiking, playing bass guitar, and being a grandpa.

IMHO WORK IS OVERRATED.   

Thank you T Hocking and Li Hu!  This turns out to be a more interesting topic than I expected.  I keep wanting to claim a “slot”… retired, working etc.  But There is no slot. I was hoping to be a slightly more comfortable dirt bag but I’m not that either.  I guess we continue to reinvent ourselves over time.

When I left my job I was quite concerned because my brain was pretty fried. I was distracted and finding it hard to concentrate. For a year or two after moving to Joshua Tree I wondered if I could  ever read a book or do an Excel spreadsheet or work on profit and loss and accounting all day long. At that time I just couldn’t.

I feel like I’m slowly coming back.  A small but helpful thing has been working on all the New York Times puzzles every day and some other video games. It’s also helped to read journals and news far and wide.  But by far the most surprising aspect of Climbing for me has been the speeded up decision-making and mental acuity of my brain.  My memory is so much sharper, if only to be able to recognize all the weird things in the park and remember where I am (ie not get lost)— also remembering routes and beta.  It used to blow my mind that Bob would recall some tiny chip or nubbin way up on a route.  Now I revisit rocks I climbed four years ago and I remember almost all of it.  

So I have no idea where it goes from here. Maybe if rgold is reading he can advise us how good or bad it gets from here.  Rich is sharp!  

I very much enjoyed my work--as stressful and frustrating as it often could be. Surely never felt a sense of "quiet desperation" because I was participating in the 'working world'---felt, and still feel, that it is a most important part of life. Still occasionally involved in an unofficial 'advisory' capacity. ( I acknowledge that I was privileged to have the opportunity to choose and maintain a career that I found to be personally rewarding, fully recognizing that very many don't have that opportunity.) However, I'm also enjoying my retirement, with the flexibility that it provides ( as long as reasonable health allows me to take advantage of that flexibility!!!). Each of us is different, of course, so we each react to such aspects of life in our own individual way.

Retired last year on 05 May.  Flew to Egypt on 06 May.  Engaged in enough travel out the end of the year that I didn't have a ton of time to reflect on not working. 

I enjoyed work and never dreaded going especially as stressful as it could be, the work environment was a friendly place.  So...miss the people and not the work as much.  Have had a W2 for over 45 years so even though I retired "early", I feel like it was enough.  Luck or some skill...I got good advice (and took it I guess...ha ha) to get into a 401k and thinking about retirement on the very front end of my career.  Only two main employers so didn't bounce around a lot, which, may have kept my opportunities lower, but, got me two pensions and two 401k's, HSA, etc.  Comfy financially so far (!).  Finished off the house payment earlier this year and nice to have no debt to contend with.

Seems like I have plenty of hobbies to keep me occupied.  Really enjoy the recreation schedule outside the normal work week.  Mid-week hiking, skiing, climbing, fishing...  Travel plans around the best schedule not jammed around weekend to weekend...great.

So far so good!

My 29 years in IT were pretty stressful, if interesting. Working in the Network Center environment, 24/7 with 3 days of 12 hours shifts and 4 days off allowed time for climbing and mountaineering. At my age of 50, the company was bought out by European Multinational and the whole team of Analysts and Engineers was fired by the new owners. I had some choices to make.

Almost at the same time, I met a girl climbing. She lived in Idyllwild and after a while she suggested that I sell my place in West LA and move in with her. That was 25 years ago. We do a lot of outdoor activities, the town and the mountains allow for staying in shape and our time is on the road in our small camper. Having a partner who loves the outdoors even more than I do, helps quite a bit. The so called retirement doesn't really mean much, as long as we can keep doing what we love. I guess we both were born for mountains and mountain activities. So why look back when tomorrow can be so much fun.

Cheers Everyone, Alois.

P.S. Kris Solem, I hope your new life up north gives you and Barb much pleasure. Good luck!  

I’ve come to admit that this place is home. The other place is home too. So I guess I have two.

I was sitting on a hill in Placerville yesterday and saw the beginning of a small fire in the Georgetown area. I debated whether to call my daughter and warn her because maybe the fire was more around Pollock Pines. Well, it’s raging now it’s within 15 miles of her home. So it’s an annual thing now probably because people aren’t raking their leaves.   You can’t get Home insurance anymore. And as my daughter said it’s not if but when a fire takes them out. In 20+ years I lived here there was never a single fire. Now they’re Every summer all summer.

directly across this lake is Folsom prison. It must be hard for the guys to be looking through bars. My friend is in San Quentin and he’s just gone totally quiet. I think he has given up ever getting out of there. Should easily have been out five years ago, but this is what happens when you have no legal representation. His crime merited a solid four years in state prison. He’s working on 25 now.

I am enjoying these stories about retirement and semi retirement. Keep them coming!

I walked out the door the day I turned 60.  Not soon enough.  Never been back, no desire to ever go back - good riddance.  Narcissist boss ruined a once fun job and a good place to work.

Li Huwrote:

It’s the rapport between them and Walz has her back. We believe him cause he’s pretty believable. There’s hope for the world.

He’s just a better liar than most of the others.

There is something wrong with a Command Sergeant Major – the pinnacle of achievement for a non-commissioned officer – who earned that leadership position and then turned his back on his troops when the call came to go into harm’s way. To retire “honorably” he took a demotion to Master Sergeant. But whatever, his choice. Many of those who served under him have gone public with their opinions and you can find them online easily enough. I doubt they’ll be voting for him.

What galls me are his remarks on gun control. He's made many statements like this one, a quote from two days ago: "We can make sure those weapons of war, that I carried in war, are only carried in war." That is false valor. He was never in, or even near combat, even once. He never carried a weapon in war. Add to that the fact that the “weapons of war” that he never carried in war are not legally available to the public to begin with.

Enough. I could go on, but I always regret it when I post about anything political. I wouldn’t post this if I didn’t think it needed to be aired. I’ll leave this link to a post on X (FB would certainly delete it) by a distinguished retired Colonel. If you do “X,” he’s a good one to follow.

https://x.com/CynicalPublius/status/1820939226193494209

If the group here feels that I'm out of bounds with this post (because it's overtly political, not because you disagree), I'll delete it. But there's been an undercurrent of politics going on here since Biden withdrew, remarks made in passing, in a covert kind of way; "I know, we don't talk politics here, but I just have to slip this in..." 

With all respect to Li, who is one of my favorite contributors here, I felt compelled to respond to his comment. I'm not challenging anyone to a fight, or disparaging anyone here for their politics. I don't do that. I just had to say my piece. Take it as two cents worth from a "never served" who grew up in a family with a strong military tradition.

Attack the message not the messenger I say

Kristian, I don't know his motives, but I think it's possible that a soldier who thought the US was embarking on another foolish, costly war would think he could do more for his country and his troops by running for Congress and trying to stop it. I've read that that's what he told a friend at the time. 

I retired in June of 2019, just as COVID was ramping up, so I missed all the problems colleges and their students suffered. I was 75 at the time.  I was still doing ok in math research, but I think my teaching had slipped a notch.  For one thing, I was losing my hearing but hadn't gotten hearing aids.  For another, I felt I was making more mistakes than I used to when working out complex calculations in class. And I was getting tired of three hours of commuting per day, even on a three or four day schedule. A major consideration, having served on several hiring committees, was the fact that I was taking up space that should go to one of the many deserving young people struggling to start academic careers. And I was certainly old enough!  

I've never done anything but teaching and research; I spent my entire life since kindergarten in one school or another. Of course there were ups and downs, but on balance I loved the work.  Since retirement, I spend a few hours each day posting explanations and proofs on mathematics sites to answer questions that now come from around the world.  This is pick-and-choose teaching without any obligation to grade, correct, or test---practically heaven.  I imagine it helps fight cognitive decline, but I do it because I love it.

I've also been able to devote much more time to photography, my original passion well before I encountered mathematics and climbing.  I don't do much with it, make greeting cards for my wife and daughter to use, occasional prints for those who want them, and post pictures on my page on FB, but it satisfies a deep urge, one I inherited from my mother, to bear witness to our astonishingly beautiful world.

Climbing has also been a lifelong passion; I'm now in my 67th year.  I had some days as an elite (for the time) climber, but it's been 45 years since I had any claim to such a title.  I've soldiered on, slowly declining in ability, to a currently very modest level, which still gives me pleasure. I attribute some of the decline to giving up bouldering, which I did twelve years ago after suffering an ACL rupture from a short jump onto a pad.  My wife has had health problems in recent years that have severely limited my ability to travel and even to climb outdoors, but I've stayed in the game as best I can under the circumstances and am still puttering around on the rock.

In my little cohort, there is practically no one left who is both alive and still climbing.  Al Rubin is one, but we keep missing chances to connect.  Elaine Mathews is 81 and still at it; I see her regularly in the gym.  Just about everyone else has either worn out their body parts, is battling circulatory issues or cancer, has died, or has restructured their interests. Most of my partners are 10-20 years younger, and a few could easily be my children. It would be nice if I could ascribe my climbing longevity to good clean living, but I think the reality is that I just did well at the genetic gaming table, and by staying active, didn't fuck it all up.

I'm well aware---as one of my superannuated friends cheerfully proclaimed one day---that "the sun is setting." Climbing, if it has any meaning beyond its physical components, teaches us to deal with What Is. In that spirit of adventure, I walk or sometimes hobble out the door to see what the day will bring.

^^^

That's a great post, thanks!

Ditto that!

Wow... And "cover girl" still getting after it.  That's a great piece in the Rock and Snow flashback on her.

Thanks!

Great post, Rich. While Rich and I have unfortunately 'missed connections' when trying to climb together again at the Gunks, I did have the pleasure of seeing both him and Elaine, and many other old acquaintances, at his 80th birthday party ( held, of course, at a climbing gym) this past winter.

Unlike Rich, I was never in the elite , though fortunate to be friends and occasional partners, with several in that 'category', but, at least until recently,have been happy to be able to putter along at a reasonable standard, and am still able to play on rock, or, now more frequently, on plastic whenever possible. I attribute this relative 'longevity' to genetics, luck, and, stubbornness!!! While I have several friends, just slightly younger, who are still climbing very strongly ( including Eric Engberg, who posts occasionally here), I, too, am mostly climbing with partners who are decades younger. That such partnerships are possible is one of the great aspects of our chosen activity, one that you don't find in many other similar endeavors--and one that is enhanced in the gym context. But, I also know, though try to 'compartmentalize', that this could end any day, in particular as I see two other of my only slightly older friends, until recently climbing strongly, now struggling with very difficult health issues. But, I, too, head out that door each day---so much better than just sitting and waiting.

Kristian Solemwrote:

He’s just a better liar than most of the others.

There is something wrong with a Command Sergeant Major – the pinnacle of achievement for a non-commissioned officer – who earned that leadership position and then turned his back on his troops when the call came to go into harm’s way. To retire “honorably” he took a demotion to Master Sergeant. But whatever, his choice. Many of those who served under him have gone public with their opinions and you can find them online easily enough. I doubt they’ll be voting for him.

What galls me are his remarks on gun control. He's made many statements like this one, a quote from two days ago: "We can make sure those weapons of war, that I carried in war, are only carried in war." That is false valor. He was never in, or even near combat, even once. He never carried a weapon in war. Add to that the fact that the “weapons of war” that he never carried in war are not legally available to the public to begin with.

Enough. I could go on, but I always regret it when I post about anything political. I wouldn’t post this if I didn’t think it needed to be aired. I’ll leave this link to a post on X (FB would certainly delete it) by a distinguished retired Colonel. If you do “X,” he’s a good one to follow.

https://x.com/CynicalPublius/status/1820939226193494209

If the group here feels that I'm out of bounds with this post (because it's overtly political, not because you disagree), I'll delete it. But there's been an undercurrent of politics going on here since Biden withdrew, remarks made in passing, in a covert kind of way; "I know, we don't talk politics here, but I just have to slip this in..." 

With all respect to Li, who is one of my favorite contributors here, I felt compelled to respond to his comment. I'm not challenging anyone to a fight, or disparaging anyone here for their politics. I don't do that. I just had to say my piece. Take it as two cents worth from a "never served" who grew up in a family with a strong military tradition.

Delete it, please.

I need to make one point clear on the CSM retirement thing. I spent twelve years in the Army and separated to not put my spouse through another deployment to hot, sandy places.

Waltz retired two months before his battalion received a deployment alert order. Once a unit receives an alert order, it is usually anywhere between three months to two years before the unit receives a mobilization order. Deployment for Reserve/Guard units usually occurs anywhere from three months to a year after mobilization.

For example I was a staff officer (S1) for a battalion that received an alert order for Afghanistan in 2001.  That battalion NEVER activated, let alone mobilized and deployed. My next job was as a company commander in a different battalion that was not under orders. My Company was alerted in 10/02, activated in 11/02, mobilized in 1/03, deployed in 2/03, and we crossed the Iraqi border on the night of 3/19/03.  So, these things can go very fast or glacially slow, and battalion command would not have an accurate picture of the actual schedule. In fact, my battalion commander flat out told me the first week of 2/03 that my company would never deploy, even though all of my equipment was already in Kuwait. Two weeks later, we were on a plane to Kuwait City.  

Now, it is very likely that as a CSM he had foreknowledge that an alert order was coming down the pipe, However, he would not know when, and it could have been one year or more.

So, after 24 years, starting his political career, and deployment being up to four years away or never, retirement does not seem so unreasonable.

For another example, my 1SG, after 28 years and three wars, turned down a promotion to SGM (and likely another deployment) to run for County Sheriff. He was the soldieriest of soldiers I ever had the pleasure to be associated with, and I would never suggest that he shirked his duty by turning down a promotion to retire and run for office  

It is not like Waltz retired once an alert order was received (still a ways from actual deployment). It is not unreasonable. 

Just grabbing a moment to say Kris, don’t delete anything. One of the pleasures of finally being an adult senior is perhaps we can talk and reason together. The time for name-calling anger has long past and now we can enjoy the fruits of maturity. Frank and Wendy, thank you for your responses which helped clarify at least in some of our minds the situation with Walz.  Personally, I like him more and more.

It’s an election year and we all talk about whatever is on our minds. I’m grateful for the dialogue.

I was really hoping if I threw out a little bait Rich would respond exactly as he did.  Overtime, Rich’s posts have acted as a sort of light shining on a dark path ahead. Thank you, rgold for taking the time to write – – and it is giving me some thoughts to chew on on this long drive home. 

“I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

I remember this being on the top of the editorial page of the local Cheyenne, Wyoming newspaper, decades ago.

Yes, I think at our age we should be mature enough to be nice with our discussions of politics. I will try to do my part!

As to what Frank said above, I have to agree. I spent 21+ years in the USAF, mostly in fighter squadrons or pilot/instructor training squadrons. What he says about the unpredictability of deployments has also been my experience. It sounded like Waltz was already thinking of politics and had filed to run some time before the deployment was in the works.

As to the other comment Waltz has made about “carrying weapons of war”, I saw the video where he says that and it does sound like he is “embellishing” for effect in a local speech and he probably should walk that back.

I have a very few “combat hours” over Iraq in the A-10, but it was between the two wars and during Operation Southern Watch, and even though we were carrying live weapons we were never shot at during our deployment and we never shot at anything ourselves. That’s why I have put combat hours in quotes. My official flight records show them as combat hours but I personally don’t consider them so out of respect for my comrades who truly were actually shot at.

Having said all that, the difference between the two choices (for me, IMHO) is stark and couldn’t be more clear. In the big scheme of things, and for what is at stake in the election (again, from my perspective), the Waltz issue is minor. To others, it might not be, and they are free to decide that.

In the end, global warming, health care (including a woman’s right to it), NATO, Ukraine, Supreme Court ethics and reform,  cleaning up the money in politics…. (and much more) are the bigger issues that will decide my vote, not Waltz’s military record.

Again, all this is just my opinion… and we all know what they say about opinions! 

WF WF51wrote:

Delete it, please.

How is that fair?  Either everyone gets to express their political opinions in this thread or no one should express a political opinion in this thread.  The latter is my preference, but there's not a moderator, so this is what happens.  These political posts typically escalate into a tedious back and forth, which is what is now happening yet again.

Most people form their political opinions based on second or third hand information.  Then when it's posted here, it's fourth hand information. The only value I can see is that some people must find it entertaining. 

Thanks Frank and Daniel for sharing your experiences. From what I’ve read, things were happening fairly quickly with Waltz’s Battalion, but like you say, who knows? And like I said in my post, “Whatever, his choice.”

I just don’t care much for him using the gun control argument to glorify himself. And it’s not just one speech, he’s been saying it in various wordings for a long time. And the issue has arisen that he actually retired with the rank of Master Sergeant, not the Command Sergeant Major rank displayed on his website and in his campaign materials. 

Todd, you raise some good points. Regarding Trump’s draft evasion, at the height of the Viet Nam war over 500,000 American young men found ways to dodge the draft to avoid serving in Viet Nam, and they had the support of countless anti war Americans. I would probably have been among them, but I got lucky in the lottery and got a number in the 300’s, virtually guaranteeing my safety. Maybe when it comes to running for President the bar is higher, but I can’t fault him for it.

His remarks about McCain floored me at the time; stupid and disgusting. And with the Electoral College map shaping up the way it is now, Arizona is very much in play. With the McCain family refusing to back him, those remarks might cost him the election. I know there have been some efforts behind the scenes to mend those fences, but that would require a genuine apology from Trump.

Much of the other stuff he is quoted as saying is either edited out of context (“Bloodbath,” “Good people on both sides,”) or just plain fabricated (“Losers” at Normandy, disparaging Gold Star families, etc.).

I don’t have a good answer for your question about the guy I linked on X, except to say that he’s been around a long time and appears to be what he represents himself to be.

Here’s the thing, I’m not partisan or dogmatic. I vote on issues. This time around I’m a one issue voter. That issue is war. To those among us who hold climate change as a main issue, let me point out that those nukes have one hell of a carbon footprint. And the Board of the Bulletin of The Atomic Scientists takes the grim position that we are closer to nuclear war today than ever in the past. That includes, in their judgement, the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Trump did more for peace in the ME than any previous President. And he understood the dangers and senseless risk of NATO expansionism. Thus Putin, who invaded Ukraine during the second Obama term, sat on his hands for four years. So, while I don’t like Trump, imo he is less likely to preside over WWIII than an administration that will continue to pursue the policies of the last four years.

I hope I’ve explained myself to some degree. We need to step back from the brink. I don’t think a Harris administration will do that, I think Trump will.

I appreciate everyone’s civility, and I think I might go silent for a while. Consider it penance for going down the rat hole… My next post will either be about retirement, which in my case was driven by circumstance, not choice. Or about climbing, if I can get away from this house building for long enough to scratch and claw my way to the top of Devil’s Tower. The damned thing is just down the road a piece!