Trends that have fallen out of style

Cherokee Nuneswrote:

Who is that, if I may ask?

Butora. 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

bad idea especially ice climbing were every screw is like a bolt hanger. withe the bolt end biner pointing the wrong direction it becomes pretty easy to accidently kick the draw on the way by and then watch it unclip from the ice screw... 

That hasn't even remotely been a problem.

that is the reason draws no longer come with biners facing opposite directions. I have had it happen twice. once on rock and once on ice.. 

Do people still sneak complimentary rocks into your packs while out cragging?

Because I miss that.

Because, free rocks.

Jason ELwrote:

Do people still sneak complimentary rocks into your packs while out cragging?

Because I miss that.

Because, free rocks.

Had a buddy carry a complimentary brick in his backpack all the way to the bottom of the Grand Canyon. We all had a good chuckle. He was strong as an ox so it really had no effect on him. That was years ago so no idea if the tradition has carried on. 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

that is the reason draws no longer come with biners facing opposite directions. I have had it happen twice. once on rock and once on ice.. 

can you explain this? I don’t understand why opposite side biner would have any effect. I would think naively that the orientation of the biner clipped to the bolt is all that really matters for unclipping from the bolt.

Daniel Joderwrote:

Had a buddy carry a complimentary brick in his backpack all the way to the bottom of the Grand Canyon. We all had a good chuckle. He was strong as an ox so it really had no effect on him. That was years ago so no idea if the tradition has carried on. 

It has but isn't as funny anymore,  feelings are easily hurt now

You answered your own question. When both biners face the same way and you clip with the gate facing away from the direction of travel when the draw gets pulled up by the rope the spine of bolt end biner pushes against the bolt. When you switch the biners and do the same thing the gate of the biner pushes against the bolt. I can't believe I am wasteing my time explaining this. It's been common knowledge for decades. Don't any of you read the fucking instructions when you buy new gear. There's little pictures with sculls and crossbones and shit. 

It has but isn't as funny anymore,  feelings are easily hurt now

All the more reason to do it.

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

You answered your own question. When both biners face the same way and you clip with the gate facing away from the direction of travel when the draw gets pulled up by the rope the spine of bolt end biner pushes against the bolt. When you switch the biners and do the same thing the gate of the biner pushes against the bolt. I can't believe I am wasteing my time explaining this. It's been common knowledge for decades. Don't any of you read the fucking instructions when you buy new gear. There's little pictures with sculls and crossbones and shit. 

The gate/spine orientation is a lot different than the problem you shared with me for what it’s worth.

It’s actually been so long that we have been using the gates facing the same direction that I’d forgotten about that reason. And since I buy my slings and biners and assemble them out of the products I prefer, no instructions came with them  

You told me that it was because I could kick the draw and it could unclip, which could happen without regard to gate orientation, if I was clumsy and lazy enough to be kicking my draws and ropes while ice climbing. That seemed like a you problem, and not a universal one as described. 

its the same thing .. RTFM

Jaren W wrote:

How is carabiner orientation “the same thing” as kicking the draw as you climb past, and how is that concern obviated by having carabiners face the same way? I don’t ice climb, so I readily acknowledge there may be something obvious that I’m missing because of my lack of experience. But if screws are essentially like bolt hangers as you say, I imagine the concern is roughly equivalent across disciplines. It may be easier to avoid kicking the draw in a rock climbing context, but I’m struggling to see how that fundamentally changes the nature of the concern (not that you’ve asserted it does).

It’s not the same thing at all. My experience on this site has shown that Nick is one of the cantankerous know it all types that always has to be right. He’s going to create a way where he’s right and everyone else is stupid.

It’s a shame because he seemingly has a lot of experience he could share but he chooses a different route.   

My experience on this site has shown that Nick is one of the cantankerous know it all types that always has to be right.

Did he hurt your feelings?

Cherokee Nuneswrote:

Did he hurt your feelings?

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

When both biners face the same way and you clip with the gate facing away from the direction of travel when the draw gets pulled up by the rope the spine of bolt end biner pushes against the bolt. When you switch the biners and do the same thing the gate of the biner pushes against the bolt.

Thanks! That makes sense and I hadn’t thought much about the bolt side carabiner before. Glad to learn something today.

Eric Craig wrote:

Old school quick draw. Are my 'biners ok?

I would have giving you 10/10 if there was homemade holes in that hex.

catch it with the rope and it gets dreagged up twords the bolt. bump it with you foot and it gets pushed up twords the bolt. its the same fucking thing

Cherokee Nuneswrote:

Did he hurt your feelings?

Just my sense of spelling and abbreviation

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

catch it with the rope and it gets dragged up towards the bolt. bump it with you foot and it gets pushed up towards the bolt.

I'm confused again. The rope pulling it gate side is an issue because then you can have the biner resting on the gate/nose. When you kick the draw, the gate will always get pushed towards the bolt if you have the gate on the left, never if the gate is on the right (since bolts tilt from \ top left => bottom right \ ). This seems like it is just the situation you will end up with if you clip it gate facing to the left (ie, for when you traverse right off of a bolt) no?