New and experienced climbers over 50 #30

Carl Schneiderwrote:

Lori, get a tear drop camper, like a Little Guy. I was looking at getting one a few years ago but decided to wait until I’m retired so I make use of it. About 20k au. Also a small 20l fridge and a solar blanket and battery.

I’m ’marketing’ this expenditure to my wife as just being common sense preparation in case the power goes out due to load shedding or a fire.

Karl, this is my teardrop, made by NWTeardrops in Oregon.  With four solar panels the only limiting factor is availability of water.  If there is a stream or lake I use a Katadyn gravity bag.  Propane heater (for those sub-zero mornings), Dometic fridge, propane stove.  Two deep cycle 6V marine batteries.  "Fantastic" fan for hot nights. 

Oh, man... I'm just filled with gratitude for all you guys. (and gals).  This situation that happened last week driving home cannot happen again.  But if it does, I need to be better prepared.  So, from the advice that I run out and buy a new car, to the subsequent focus on car refrigerators, I'm all in on the fridge.  And now I'm looking at the Teardrop pic from Idaho Bob.  

I don't mean to be ignorant...   is this something I could hitch to the back of my car, and park somewhere and sleep/eat in it?  I've made so few trips to visit my family in Sacramento because the hotel stays are so expensive.  And feeding myself, as a diabetic/celiac is SO hard in restaurants on the fly.  Wow, if I could just hook up a little camper and go.      

In the meantime, having a refrigerator in my car would solve so many problems!  Even on days climbing in the park, things explode in the car.  My emergency kit heats up.  

This is a 37 liter Philips portable fridge.  Is there a reason to pay double for a Dometic?  

So when you are not drawing off of the cigarette lighter, you use a battery and solar panel?  I will go back and study what you all have suggested.  Thank you so much!

-----------

After my morning hike I caught up with Brandt and his friend at Ryan Campground.  I was sure it would be a terrible 100 degrees... instead it was a perfect warm morning, with a breeze, until 9 a.m.  Then time to go home!

Idaho Bobwrote:

Karl, this is my teardrop, made by NWTeardrops in Oregon.  With four solar panels the only limiting factor is availability of water.  If there is a stream or lake I use a Katadyn gravity bag.  Propane heater (for those sub-zero mornings), Dometic fridge, propane stove.  Two deep cycle 6V marine batteries.  "Fantastic" fan for hot nights. 

Those are some legit wheels, Bob. 35s? Is that a special off-road package? Looks pretty sweet.

When we pulled in to Ryan Campgound this morning, around 7:30, the temp was 85. By the time I got back home, a couple of hours later and 1,000 feet lower, it was 104.

Lori's photos do a great job of making the climb look harder than it really was (5.10a), which for me was already desperately hard. 

Idaho Bobwrote:

Karl, this is my teardrop, made by NWTeardrops in Oregon.  With four solar panels the only limiting factor is availability of water.  If there is a stream or lake I use a Katadyn gravity bag.  Propane heater (for those sub-zero mornings), Dometic fridge, propane stove.  Two deep cycle 6V marine batteries.  "Fantastic" fan for hot nights. 

Cool. Some have a water tank underneath. 

Lori, teardrop campers are very light, they can be towed by a normal car. Must have a queen sized mattress inside and cupboards etc. The one I was going to get had a trifold mattress that you could fold up and sit on. Most have a galley with the fridge etc. 

Currently I have a big canvas tent that erects in less than three minutes. It takes a lot longer to peg it all down but it’s not too hard to set up. Of course there are negatives to trailers, you can put a tent almost anywhere but not do with a trailer.

Lori, I typically recommend teardrop trailers as the most affordable, least hassle option for people who want to go on the road.  Trailers are far far cheaper than vans (class B) or C RVs. Most teardrops can be towed behind the typical passenger car. Just look in the manual of your car for its tow capacity.  There are frequent RV shows here in SoCal.  Just go to one and look at the various options for teardrops. Look at the weights of various models compared to your tow capacity.

The options will be things like just house battery/inverter or the addition of a solar panel. Fridge that runs just off electric/battery, or dual electric/propane. The very easiest way to do all this once you get your rig is just to stay at private campgrounds with "full" or "partial hookups".  Partial hookup will be electric and water, full will have a sewage dump on your site.  Sewage options for the trailer will be a tank that gets dumped with a hose or a cassette tank that you can remove and walk to a non-site location dump. An even cheaper option for stays, If your family has a level driveway near a house, you can usually figure a way to get power to you and a way to hook up water, you can stay there. With a cassette black tank you just take it to their toilet to dump, with a regular tank you just have to find a place nearby that has an RV dump.

Not having any of the facilites like water and electric is dry camping.  Logistically it just adds complications, although that's all a lot of people every do, for cost reasons.  In my old RV, the class C 28 foot Winnie, I had a generator and fairly large tank capacities and I could usually drycamp for 5-6 days before I had to go get water and dump the tanks.  With the class B van I have now, where I opted for a generator and inverter and lead batteries rather than lithium ($20-25K cost differential), I can still dry camp for a fairly long time without moving, but it's so easy to move that rig that it's not a hassle.  On the recent CoR trip, I only had to drive down the hill to the RV dump once during the stay.

If you find an RV show in our area, I'll be happy to go with you if I'm in town (as you know, I'm on the road about 2 weeks a month).  I would be able to look at the spec sheets without my eyes glazing over, which can be a challenge for someone who has never owned an RV.

I have a nice platform with full length drawers in my Tacoma.  I like to sleep as close to outside as possible so I sleep head to the back of the truck with the shell open.  But I am thinking that it would be nice to have someplace to sit that is inside and am looking at a popup camper shell instead.  I kind of like these for the weight.

https://hiatuscampers.com/

I would never buy a trailer.  I just can't see driving around at 60 mph when I can get the same functionality in a camper and go 75 or 80.

Idaho Bobwrote:

Lori, Tony is right, the GTO's were bad ass but.......they were not strong enough to get past my Stingray.

Stingray’s were my top target to race against during the impromptu street races, that always happened in every Midwest town on the local 1/4 mile that was painted on some out of the way chunk of road. The trick is to let them win - pay the bet $$$, then go double or nothing on round 2. I had a AMC Javelin that would reliably cut 12.40-12.80 bracket racing through mufflers and on road tires. The car was pretty “built” and not very good as a road car…. Cruising speed 55 mph tops, 105 top end at the end of 1/4 mile.
That was me in a different life.

Lori… tell Tony GTO’s are nice- but, and I’m sure he knows this, Pontiac made much faster/quicker cars in the early 60’s …. 64/65 Catalina’s that you could order with, low gears, 2 4b carbs, headers, tuned intake.
He might chuckle at this fact. I went to Chicago one time looking to win big at Bracket Racing organized by NHRA at a real track. I did OK but “broke out” - went quicker than my stated time, after 3 rounds. But at the impromptu races someone beat me with a VW bug!!!!!! Took all my $$$ but gave me back $30 so I could drive back to Omaha. I avoided Chicago after that.

Didn’t mean to get all long winded.

Lori- take Phylip up on her generous offer, nothing like looking with a person who has experience. Oh and don’t forget what I mentioned… the small P/U with 4x4 and a crank up camper. At CoR I was impressed with the number of active climbers who had these rigs- IMHO the best of both worlds.

Carl- Right now I have a rig like yours, fits in the trusty Corolla and has all the comforts of home.

Rickey Hairline….. how old are you? You retired?  Being retired gets your foot in the door.

Brad…. Do you ever just go back and decide to make your route “sport” so people don’t need to have the exact gear? I have- makes for better routes- I think.

Oh well… I’m off to Stoney, no matter how hot it always gives the Golden Hour. That’s the one hour before sundown and the 1 hour after.

Later all

Guy Keeseewrote:

Brad…. Do you ever just go back and decide to make your route “sport” so people don’t need to have the exact gear? I have- makes for better routes- I think.

Hello, Guy. No, I never make a route "all bolts" if quality gear can be used in cracks. I actually really like routes which use a mix of gear and bolts.

But I definitely take steps nowadays to make routes I create well protected. Among other things, I place bolts (when I place them) close together (especially when I'm bolting on lead). I've also added bolts to routes I put up on lead in which I've done an excessive runout (running to a bolting stance, for example, so I could drill). My phrase for this "adding bolts after it's led" process is back-bolting and I usually do it right away when I do it.

I'm also careful to make sure that if gear is needed on routes, it's quality gear. I could point you to a dozen or more routes up here on Sonora Pass alone, for example, where I've placed bolts because although yeah, a cam could be placed, it wouldn't hold a fall. As an example, I placed a perfect #2 Camalot on an in-process new route recently. I then pounded my fist on the rock I'd placed the cam behind and it sounded like styrofoam ("thonk, thonk, thonk"). It appeared to me that any cam there would probably not hold a fall. Not to mention that the block it might pry off could "offend" the belayer a little as it tumbled off. I put in a bolt in there since, in my view, what looked like a nice cam was really the illusion of a nice cam.

I've also used fixed pitons on new routes. I'll use pins if I can be absolutely certain that they will stay in place, "welded in" forever (in a "pin pocket" for example). I like the fact that a (permanent) pin uses the natural features of the rock instead of creating a hole, but one has to be sure the fixed piece isn't an illusion too (and especially up here on Sonora Pass where, at elevation, the freeze/thaw cycle matters every winter).

Finally, it's not unheard of for me to put a bolt not too far above gear. Here's the route description, for example, of a really nice route I put up with my friend Gavin at Pinnacles on which there is one perfect gear placement and the rest bolts (I added emphasis to the part about a bolt not-too-high above the gear):

"...Climb the streak past 11 more bolts and a slot for a 3½ inch piece (the slot is between the thirteenth and fourteenth bolts; skipping the gear results in a runout that is manageable but uncharacteristic of the rest of the route)."

But no, if true, good-quality crack protection can be had, I will not put in a bolt, ever.

Brad Youngwrote:

Hello, Guy. No, I never make a route "all bolts" if quality gear can be used in cracks. I actually really like routes which use a mix of gear and bolts.

But I definitely take steps nowadays to make routes I create well protected. Among other things, I place bolts (when I place them) close together (especially when I'm bolting on lead). I've also added bolts to routes I put up on lead in which I've done an excessive runout (running to a bolting stance, for example, so I could drill). My phrase for this "adding bolts after it's led" process is back-bolting and I usually do it right away when I do it.

I'm also careful to make sure that if gear is needed on routes, it's quality gear. I could point you to a dozen or more routes up here on Sonora Pass alone, for example, where I've placed bolts because although yeah, a cam could be placed, it wouldn't hold a fall. As an example, I placed a perfect #2 Camalot on an in-process new route recently. I then pounded my fist on the rock I'd placed the cam behind and it sounded like styrofoam ("thonk, thonk, thonk"). It appeared to me that any cam there would probably not hold a fall. Not to mention that the block it might pry off could "offend" the belayer a little as it tumbled off. I put in a bolt in there since, in my view, what looked like a nice cam was really the illusion of a nice cam.

I've also used fixed pitons on new routes. I'll use pins if I can be absolutely certain that they will stay in place, "welded in" forever (in a "pin pocket" for example). I like the fact that a (permanent) pin uses the natural features of the rock instead of creating a hole, but one has to be sure the fixed piece isn't an illusion too (and especially up here on Sonora Pass where, at elevation, the freeze/thaw cycle matters every winter).

Finally, it's not unheard of for me to put a bolt not too far above gear. Here's the route description, for example, of a really nice route I put up with my friend Gavin at Pinnacles on which there is one perfect gear placement and the rest bolts (I added emphasis to the part about a bolt not-too-high above the gear):

"...Climb the streak past 11 more bolts and a slot for a 3½ inch piece (the slot is between the thirteenth and fourteenth bolts; skipping the gear results in a runout that is manageable but uncharacteristic of the rest of the route)."

But no, if true, good-quality crack protection can be had, I will not put in a bolt, ever.

I can hear the whining from miles away "but carrying cams ruins my day!"

 I also appreciate when vansion folks can just say "it's an RV". 

Nice paddle today, seals harassed us for hours 

Guy Keeseewrote:

Oh well… I’m off to Stoney, no matter how hot it always gives the Golden Hour. That’s the one hour before sundown and the 1 hour after.

Are you an artist or a photographer or just someone who just enjoys the soft warm light of Golden Hour?

Guy Keeseewrote:

Stingray’s were my top target to race against during the impromptu street races, that always happened in every Midwest town on the local 1/4 mile that was painted on some out of the way chunk of road. The trick is to let them win - pay the bet $$$, then go double or nothing on round 2. I had a AMC Javelin that would reliably cut 12.40-12.80 bracket racing through mufflers and on road tires. The car was pretty “built” and not very good as a road car…. Cruising speed 55 mph tops, 105 top end at the end of 1/4 mile.
That was me in a different life.

That’s pretty fast for a big vehicle like that! Probably took 1/2 mile just to stop   

My friend restored a 1970 Chevelle and I helped restore an old Cutlas 440 “compact”, but our street cars were VW Rabbit/Golf GTI with modified heads to eke out an extra 25 hp.   

Guy Keeseewrote:

Stingray’s were my top target to race against during the impromptu street races, that always happened in every Midwest town on the local 1/4 mile that was painted on some out of the way chunk of road. The trick is to let them win - pay the bet $$$, then go double or nothing on round 2. I had a AMC Javelin that would reliably cut 12.40-12.80 bracket racing through mufflers and on road tires. The car was pretty “built” and not very good as a road car…. Cruising speed 55 mph tops, 105 top end at the end of 1/4 mile.
That was me in a different life.

We had a similar "track" on a back road in Connecticut.  Fun times.  My '63 Stringray topped out at 72MPH in first gear, three more to go.  Lucky I didn't kill myself.

Colden Darkwrote:

Those are some legit wheels, Bob. 35s? Is that a special off-road package? Looks pretty sweet.

It's an off-road model with Timbren axle-less suspension, burly steel frame, Max Coupler (allows trailer to incline sideways). 30x9.50R151LT tires and enough solar to stay off grid even on rain (or snow) days. Propane heater for those snow days.  No AC since we usually stay at high altitude or on the Oregon/Washington coast.

Li Huwrote:

That’s pretty fast for a big vehicle like that! Probably took 1/2 mile just to stop   

My friend restored a 1970 Chevelle and I helped restore an old Cutlas 440 “compact”, but our street cars were VW Rabbit/Golf GTI with modified heads to eke out an extra 25 hp.   

This need for speed – – I totally don’t get it. Tony actually said I sucked all the joy out of driving for him.   I never realized though how much his identity is wrapped up in having been a truck driver and a fan of fast cars.

What has sobered him up is viewing our auto insurance policy even with two almost perfect records. We had some damage to my car when he drove it through a car wash and we reported it which was a huge mistake. I could’ve paid that out-of-pocket but instead Farmers paid it and is now tacking on an additional thousand dollars per year until 2025. The whole bill cash was $1500!  If one of us should get any kind of speeding ticket we might as well quit driving. Things have changed and our ability to stay in the game financially is in real jeopardy, as I believe it is for everyone.

Oh! But if you will let them install some kind of speed monitor in your car and observe it you can get a decent discount. I have nothing to hide, but I resent the intrusion. Has anyone agreed to this?

That has had more impact than my threat to free solo Run For Your Life like Alex Honnold.    Tony has bestowed Bob with supernatural powers that even he cannot live up to. But he is certain I can never be injured as long as Bob is around.

Phylp—thank you so much for your kind offer and generous advice. I would love to go to an RV show with you! This was just never on my horizon and I’m clueless and a bit jealous.

I have to say I’m somewhat enchanted by Jan’s description of sleeping in his Tacoma. The more I am outdoors, the more I don’t want to be indoors. But then I reflect upon safety and I don’t know if Jan or others ever have to worry about that. How safe would it be for a single woman all cozy in the back of a Tacoma night after night? Is this where the shotgun comes in handy?

And now we have an official sighting of a mountain lion right at the entrance to the park.  All of this is just a major learning curve that I’m trying to stay ahead of. So as always such gratitude for you all.

just a tiny snake, but a snake nonetheless, and one who would not move. I am so proud that it did not bother me at all. Progress is slow but steady.

And Brandt looked wonderful on that route. I haven’t stopped thinking about it because those first handful of moves were nailbiters to watch and he mastered it perfectly. Probably I need to get back on the rock because all I could think was no way could I do that!

Lori Milaswrote:

 he mastered it perfectly. 

I never get tired of hearing that!

Jan Mcwrote:

I have a nice platform with full length drawers in my Tacoma.  I like to sleep as close to outside as possible so I sleep head to the back of the truck with the shell open.  But I am thinking that it would be nice to have someplace to sit that is inside and am looking at a popup camper shell instead.  I kind of like these for the weight.

https://hiatuscampers.com/

I would never buy a trailer.  I just can't see driving around at 60 mph when I can get the same functionality in a camper and go 75 or 80.

Look into Four Wheel Project M. Mine is on a Tacoma with a 6’ bed and weighs 377 pounds. It is very basic, but I added a large window, a fan and trac lighting as options. It is extremely unaerodynamic, but the light weight is nice. 

Lori, if you do opt for a frig and battery? Make sure it only runs as needed. I messed up and bought one that ran all the time, fine if you can plug it in, but it drained the goal zero battery in only a day. That battery took time to.charge on it's solar panel, so that just wasn't workable for a 7-10 day trip. Yes, I could still make that work, but it would mean spending some serious money, and, hoping for FULL sun. I opted to buy ice often....and just give up on trying to have perishable items along, past a certain point. 

And yes, the COR groups have been a full smorgasbord of quite "doable" options for camping.....with electricity along.

As to a woman, alone?

Well....we all know a woman isn't entirely safe anywhere, including our own homes, but geez, it's still a low low probability event that anything will happen. Make your own decisions on what you are comfortable with, camping/traveling just the same as anything else. And really listen to your instincts. Kinda a lot like climbing, eh?? Except the low probability/high consequence events in climbing probably aren't evil intentions....at least we hope so, lol!

Me? I don't travel as much as some, but I've done quite a lot, and some of it solo. My day to day, is, after all, almost entirely solo. 

On trips, I sleep my car, sometimes even when there's a cabin, and I lock in overnight. I "shopped" really carefully the few times I parked at Walmarts, and even then, moved my car when it seemed like a party was brewing within sight. When I do tent, it's with other people around, and, people I trust, and enjoy. 

Can't advise you on a shotgun, or anything else along those lines. The choice I made for myself, decades ago, was to be reasonably prudent, pay attention....and then just don't worry all that much about worst case scenarios. I didn't want to be "always" prepared for the worst, that's not my idea of living, so....I take my chances.

And go rock climbing with random oddballs from all over the country.

Worked out pretty good.

Helen

Lori Milaswrote:

This need for speed – – I totally don’t get it. Tony actually said I sucked all the joy out of driving for him.   I never realized though how much his identity is wrapped up in having been a truck driver and a fan of fast cars.

My wife thinks me driving with traffic is too fast. 

Somehow, sitting on the left hand side with me driving on the right makes all the difference. She doesn’t complain.

Ask Tony to drive on the left side of the road. See if that helps?  

What has sobered him up is viewing our auto insurance policy even with two almost perfect records. We had some damage to my car when he drove it through a car wash and we reported it which was a huge mistake. I could’ve paid that out-of-pocket but instead Farmers paid it and is now tacking on an additional thousand dollars per year until 2025. The whole bill cash was $1500!  If one of us should get any kind of speeding ticket we might as well quit driving. Things have changed and our ability to stay in the game financially is in real jeopardy, as I believe it is for everyone.

It’s outrageous.

Oh! But if you will let them install some kind of speed monitor in your car and observe it you can get a decent discount. I have nothing to hide, but I resent the intrusion. Has anyone agreed to this?

Good idea, perhaps I’ll add one since my Crosstrek beeps at anything out of the ordinary anyways.

That has had more impact than my threat to free solo Run For Your Life like Alex Honnold.    Tony has bestowed Bob with supernatural powers that even he cannot live up to. But he is certain I can never be injured as long as Bob is around.

At least not from falling…

Phylp—thank you so much for your kind offer and generous advice. I would love to go to an RV show with you! This was just never on my horizon and I’m clueless and a bit jealous.

I have to say I’m somewhat enchanted by Jan’s description of sleeping in his Tacoma. The more I am outdoors, the more I don’t want to be indoors. But then I reflect upon safety and I don’t know if Jan or others ever have to worry about that. How safe would it be for a single woman all cozy in the back of a Tacoma night after night? Is this where the shotgun comes in handy?

And now we have an official sighting of a mountain lion right at the entrance to the park.  All of this is just a major learning curve that I’m trying to stay ahead of. So as always such gratitude for you all.

just a tiny snake, but a snake nonetheless, and one who would not move. I am so proud that it did not bother me at all. Progress is slow but steady.

And Brandt looked wonderful on that route. I haven’t stopped thinking about it because those first handful of moves were nailbiters to watch and he mastered it perfectly. Probably I need to get back on the rock because all I could think was no way could I do that!

Fun times! I’m trying to convince my climbing partner to go to Joshua Tree.