Dirtbagging has ruined climbing access

John Clarkwrote:

Yeah? Well….Your Mom

::giggle::  My dad can beat up your dad. 

Chad Millerwrote:

::giggle::  My dad can beat up your dad. 

My dog can beat up your dog too!

Assuming we are all into bigwig :)

The reality is climbing as an adventure activity is no more. Regulation is now required. A curt mentioned he wanted his kids to be able experience what he has. That shipped has sailed. Climbing is similar to baseball or golf: Organized, structured, and safe.  But the access fund could use more money/donations for golf tournaments 

I can't speak to the East Coast, but in the West there are tons of amazing climbing places all over with absolutely no crowds. You just need to be able to go to less slightly less popular areas with a 5+ minute approach. Everyone is crowding around the same places and then getting mad they need to deal with other humans. 

curt86irocwrote:

I don’t mind at all if landowners and managers implement common sense methods to protect land for future generations. I’d rather have to deal with some minor fees and permitting so that my kids get the opportunity to have the same experiences that I did.

The only time I went climbing at Hueco tanks (el paso) Texas it had the strictest climbing or entry permit I’ve ever experienced. We had to apply to be chaperoned at one cliff area per day. Yea that curbed bad behavior but it destroyed the experience. Granted that’s nothing like most climbing areas-YET. 

Diego Climberwrote:

The only time I went climbing at Hueco tanks (el paso) Texas it had the strictest climbing or entry permit I’ve ever experienced. We had to apply to be chaperoned at one cliff area per day. Yea that curbed bad behavior but it destroyed the experience. Granted that’s nothing like most climbing areas-YET. 

Correct. My point is there is amazing bouldering all around the Southwest you could have went to. The super busy locations like Hueco, which reside in delicate natural environments, ought to have permits. If you don't want to deal with permits and humans, climb somewhere slightly off the beaten path, which there is plenty of. 

Santiago Monleonwrote:

I can't speak to the East Coast, but in the West there are tons of amazing climbing places all over with absolutely no crowds. You just need to be able to go to less slightly less popular areas with a 5+ minute approach. Everyone is crowding around the same places and then getting mad they need to deal with other humans. 

Plenty of places like that in the east as well, you just have to know where to look and be willing to drive and, maybe, walk a bit further, and, again maybe, not have quite the same quality as the popular '5 star' areas, but still enjoy some excellent climbing.
My last trip to the Red River Gorge, was very much negatively impacted by the crowds ( though we did go there peak season), but early last month we went to a very worthwhile area down south and encountered only two other parties of two climbers in a week.

John Clarkwrote:

Literacy does not mean you can read. Say reading the first line of the post…

Argumentum ad rem meam 

Colin Rowewrote:

Argumentum ad rem meam 

Awww, did you take all day to come up with that? So precious. 

Santiago Monleonwrote:

I can't speak to the East Coast, but in the West there are tons of amazing climbing places all over with absolutely no crowds. You just need to be able to go to less slightly less popular areas with a 5+ minute approach. Everyone is crowding around the same places and then getting mad they need to deal with other humans. 

East coast is even less popular with climbing outside of the typical sport areas like Rumney RRG etc. I spent autumn 2016 in the North Conway area and had trouble finding partners, even on weekends with perfect weather, because people don’t like trad as much as they do sport.

Diego Climberwrote:

The only time I went climbing at Hueco tanks (el paso) Texas it had the strictest climbing or entry permit I’ve ever experienced. We had to apply to be chaperoned at one cliff area per day. Yea that curbed bad behavior but it destroyed the experience. Granted that’s nothing like most climbing areas-YET. 

lol and here I thought TX had no rules 

Santiago Monleonwrote:

I can't speak to the East Coast, but in the West there are tons of amazing climbing places all over with absolutely no crowds. You just need to be able to go to less slightly less popular areas with a 5+ minute approach. Everyone is crowding around the same places and then getting mad they need to deal with other humans. 

Agreed. Learn how to trad climb and be willing to do a relatively approach and you're already golden. Climb even at a 5.9 level or above, absolutely golden. 

Ironic that climbers complain about the death of the grand adventure in climbing but don't actually want to go on an adventure. What we're actually doing is complaining that the wild places of yesteryore are too civilized, while pretending we are still wild at heart.

The original ethos of the first climbers in Yosemite, and even the earlier OG mountaineering spirit, was to escape the the regular machinery of civilization, and to go on an adventure, to an untamed, uncivilized mountain, where they didn't even know if they were gonna come back alive. But that's not what we want. Because if we did, then we wouldn't be complaining about it. We would be off on a grand adventure, and not trying to climb in the same overused and now super civilized, crowded, and/or regulated areas.

Because here's what we do want: we want all the access, all the development, all the nice shiny bolts, established and perfect beta, no death blocks, and nice cushy paved roads to get us there, but at the same time, we want no one else to go there, and just want it all for ourselves.

I'm not saying everyone needs to go on a 50/50 survival adventure. I'm just saying we should stop bemoaning the "death of adventure" when the reality is that we don't want to go on one.

Reminds me of the aid climbing rant.

Just close your eyes and pretend no one else is around while you hang dog the mega proj.  Problem solved. 

Shoot, I thought we were talking about over crowding.  Please disregard my last comment 

I think dirtbagging ultimately started climbing.  Weren’t robbins and co dirtbags? 

TJ Bindseilwrote:

I think dirtbagging ultimately started climbing.  Weren’t robbins and co dirtbags? 

Well, Robbins and some others were heading towards juvenile delinquency before becoming climbers, but not sure that's the same as being 'dirt bags' . Anyway, climbing as a sport existed long before Robbins et al appeared, even in California---though in some ways John Muir could be considered to be a dirt bag at some points in his life. But most of our original climbing predecessors were Iargely quite well-to-to--except for their guides, of course---but those were all very hard working 'country folk'---close to the soil but far from being dirt bags.

Redacted Redactbergwrote:

Ironic that climbers complain about the death of the grand adventure in climbing but don't actually want to go on an adventure. What we're actually doing is complaining that the wild places of yesteryore are too civilized, while pretending we are still wild at heart.

The original ethos of the first climbers in Yosemite, and even the earlier OG mountaineering spirit, was to escape the the regular machinery of civilization, and to go on an adventure, to an untamed, uncivilized mountain, where they didn't even know if they were gonna come back alive. But that's not what we want. Because if we did, then we wouldn't be complaining about it. We would be off on a grand adventure, and not trying to climb in the same overused and now super civilized, crowded, and/or regulated areas.

Because here's what we do want: we want all the access, all the development, all the nice shiny bolts, established and perfect beta, no death blocks, and nice cushy paved roads to get us there, but at the same time, we want no one else to go there, and just want it all for ourselves.

I'm not saying everyone needs to go on a 50/50 survival adventure. I'm just saying we should stop bemoaning the "death of adventure" when the reality is that we don't want to go on one.

Reminds me of the aid climbing rant.

Sure when you’re unemployed and have a month of more. If not you need a road and parking lot to some way to get to climbingZ

Santiago Monleonwrote:

Correct. My point is there is amazing bouldering all around the Southwest you could have went to. The super busy locations like Hueco, which reside in delicate natural environments, ought to have permits. If you don't want to deal with permits and humans, climb somewhere slightly off the beaten path, which there is plenty of. 

But don’t expect to be able to find out where those are. And again unemployed people with months to spend have it easier with secret areas. 

I just want a free place to park my sweet vansion cause I  deserve it