Length Of Main Cordelette?

And is 7mm best for anchor setups?

A 240cm dyneema sling has proven super good enough for just about any anchor configuration I’ve come across. Lighter cleaner and less bulky by a not insignificant margin.

If you’re super worried about someone taking a factor 2 on your anchor, tying in with the rope gives you the dynamic advantage you crave. 

Get a dyneema quad. If you need something larger, look at rgold's anchors.

Agree with Jason. But if you want to have a non sewn loop option for extra versatility, sterling Powercord is excellent. 5.9mm, 25' should have you sorted

Tech cord in 5.5mm, 6-8m. Hardly any more bulky than a 240. 

Still goin’ with bulk, here:  19 1/2 feet by 7 mm perlon.

Edit: the length works well with a three piece knotted cordalette anchor. Also good when configured as a quad, or single-strand around a ~2 ft diameter tree.

Ditch the cordelette and learn to climb without one. They are rarely the most practical option and not worth the bulk. 

Salamanizer Skiwrote:

Ditch the cordelette and learn to climb without one. They are rarely the most practical option and not worth the bulk. 

In my experience, with trad multipitch, there isn't always a bolted anchor for rappels. With that said, you might want to carry cordage on those routes (and there are a lot of these routes) to replace the dried out old stuff you will find. Dyneema is way more expensive than cordage or tubular nylon. Cordage is pretty damn light these days. Sure, use your 240cm sling for anchors. Or, maybe you don't climb many routes that don't have bolted anchors for rappel. In that case, your comment would make sense.

Jason Pirolowrote:

A 240cm dyneema sling has proven super good enough for just about any anchor configuration I’ve come across. Lighter cleaner and less bulky by a not insignificant margin.

If you’re super worried about someone taking a factor 2 on your anchor, tying in with the rope gives you the dynamic advantage you crave. 

YES. I absolately LOVE my Mammut 240cm dyneema. Light, compact, perfect for quad anchors on bolts and for 3 pc trad anchors. I just started doing trad routes and the couple of guys I climbed with (and pretty much all the guys on YouTube) use cordelette so I figured that’s the best way to go. But it’s def good news I don’t need to    

Arin Fwrote:

In my experience, with trad multipitch, there isn't always a bolted anchor for rappels. With that said, you might want to carry cordage on those routes (and there are a lot of these routes) to replace the dried out old stuff you will find. Dyneema is way more expensive than cordage or tubular nylon. Cordage is pretty damn light these days. Sure, use your 240cm sling for anchors. Or, maybe you don't climb many routes that don't have bolted anchors for rappel. In that case, your comment would make sense.

Bail slings are a totally different situation. We’re talking about cordilettes, which are for building anchors. Sure, they can be used for emergency rappels or backing up rat nests (and I’d argue that is their best use), but for building anchors, they are unnecessary. The cordelette is popularized because it is a simple technique to teach to climbers without a lot of base skills building anchors. In fact, I’d argue that it is the most common base skill. Something to be eventually replaced by faster, more efficient techniques.

As for bail slings. I carry a length of 5mm cord as the belt for my chalk bag. If I’m climbing a route, putting up a new route, or climbing in an area where bailing or sling anchors are common, I might carry a double length piece of tubular webbing or cord in a pocket or coiled on a locker. In 25 years, I have never needed more, and I’ve climbed a lot of routes, and in areas which don’t have bolted anchors. 

I have tried cordelette (too bulky), the 240cm sling (better), and now I use a 10' Yates rabbit runner and love it. Rope anchors are an alright option too, and you should definitely know how to build a rope anchor, but personally I like to use the rabbit runner. 

Arin Fwrote:

In my experience, with trad multipitch, there isn't always a bolted anchor for rappels. With that said, you might want to carry cordage on those routes (and there are a lot of these routes) to replace the dried out old stuff you will find. Dyneema is way more expensive than cordage or tubular nylon. Cordage is pretty damn light these days. Sure, use your 240cm sling for anchors. Or, maybe you don't climb many routes that don't have bolted anchors for rappel. In that case, your comment would make sense.

Or carry two or three tied slings that can double as, well, slings. Fortunately we can do this in more than one fashion and succeed.

P Degnerwrote:

I have tried cordelette (too bulky), the 240cm sling (better), and now I use a 10' Yates rabbit runner and love it. Rope anchors are an alright option too, and you should definitely know how to build a rope anchor, but personally I like to use the rabbit runner. 

This 

I have a 10 foot Webolette from Mountain Tools and I love it. I can double it, triple it, quadruple it or thread it. Lots of options and no bulky knots. 

Salamanizer Skiwrote:

Ditch the cordelette and learn to climb without one. They are rarely the most practical option and not worth the bulk. 

legit question..

can you show me an example of a rope anchor if leading in blocks? Or if in anticipation of needing to escape the anchor please?

i sincerely would like to learn of others and their means to 'skin this cat'.

jcs

jackscoldsweatwrote:

can you show me an example of a rope anchor if leading in blocks? Or if in anticipation of needing to escape the anchor please?

You're right that using the rope isn't really practical for leading in blocks, but I think you may be missing the point a little. The argument is more that other, less bulky and more versatile materials are better for this situation as well- I usually build my anchors with slings if I'm block leading, and a single 20' cordalette is as heavy as several double-length slings and less versatile. I usually need one double-length sling for a 3-piece anchor, or at most 2 if placements are super far apart, and these serve me well for other purposes too- rappel extension, tether, extending pro- all the usual things you use a sling for.

All that to say I'm also anti-cordalette because it just isn't very multipurpose. The tied webbing slings idea is pretty slick IMO if you think you'll need rap tat. Since you only need that sometimes, defaulting to the cordalette on that logic doesn't seem sound to me. But I guess if it works for y'all then sure...

I never climb with a cordlette, even on El Cap routes. If leading in blocks, I use alpines or the single double length sling I carry with me. Also, learn tricks like clipping cams together. If swinging leads, use the rope. If gear is far apart when leading in blocks, use the rope and swap ends when your partner gets to the anchor. It doesn't seem to happen that often and goes quick.

Wren Cooperriderwrote:

You're right that using the rope isn't really practical for leading in blocks, but I think you may be missing the point a little. The argument is more that other, less bulky and more versatile materials are better for this situation as well- I usually build my anchors with slings if I'm block leading, and a single 20' cordalette is as heavy as several double-length slings and less versatile. I usually need one double-length sling for a 3-piece anchor, or at most 2 if placements are super far apart, and these serve me well for other purposes too- rappel extension, tether, extending pro- all the usual things you use a sling for.

You can absolutely use a cordelette for those purposes too, fyi. I don't use them very often anymore, as most the multi pitch routes I do have bolted anchors nowadays, but the cordellete certainly does not lack in versatility. 

Brandon Rwrote:

You can absolutely use a cordelette for those purposes too, fyi. I don't use them very often anymore, as most the multi pitch routes I do have bolted anchors nowadays, but the cordellete certainly does not lack in versatility. 

Of course you can, but a sling does all the same things and more cleanly IMO, and its less bulky. YMMV and all that, I'm just a hater I guess

jackscoldsweatwrote:

can you show me an example of a rope anchor if leading in blocks? Or if in anticipation of needing to escape the anchor please?

In the UK the standard method is to clip the rope to an anchor point and clove it back to a big locker on your belay/rope loop (for each anchor point). For leading in blocks, they'll add an additional “magic carabiner” underneath each original carabiner on each anchor point, and have the follower essentially build a new identical rope anchor below the original one. Sounds faffy, but doesn’t take long if you’re practiced at it. That said, it does consume a lot of rope and I personally prefer a sling for block leading, and even for swapping leads if belaying in guide mode (which is slightly more annoying to set up using only the rope for the anchor).

For escaping this setup, search YouTube for JB Mountain Skills, he has a video. Generally a good resource for British methods.

jackscoldsweatwrote:

legit question..

can you show me an example of a rope anchor if leading in blocks? Or if in anticipation of needing to escape the anchor please?

i sincerely would like to learn of others and their means to 'skin this cat'.

jcs

It is really not that hard to figure out. I don’t have one set method I use for everything. I just do what’s practical for the particular situation. I will usually try to place anchor points as close as possible together. I use simple methods like clipping two cams together to reduce bulk and over complication when possible. Typically one anchor (the third) will need to be extended. An alpine sling easily works for this 99% of the time. Picking a suitable place to stop and build an anchor is more important than what method you use to build it IMO.

There are a million different situations you’ll encounter, but basically I will usually place a piece high and clove hitch it. Place a second and third (lower) and equalize those (master point) before clove hitching it direct to me. Clip a locker to the high point or master point and begin belaying. Usually, less than 1 minute to do. As the second is climbing I will adjust the anchor for convenience if needed. Usually as simple as adding a sling to the first (high) anchor down to the master point. I will place a locker on the master point for the second to clip to when he arrives. Second arrives, clips in as I’m wracking gear and manages rope. I unhitch high point and clip in with locker as first piece. When on belay, un clip from master point and climb. Takes about 2 minutes. Only anchor gear I need is an alpine sling or two and 3 lockers. In 20 years, I’ve never needed anything else.
As for escaping the anchor, you do that the same way you would using any other method.

A bit off subject, but another thing to do with the rope is to extend it with a clove hitch on the master point so you can see over the edge if on a ledge. Then tie an alpine butterfly a good arms length away in the rope and belay them up off that. Allows you to keep line of sight and communication easier. I never see people doing this when they so clearly need to. Instead they opt for the “stand next to the anchor and have a shit show” method. 

Just to play devils advocate I do think there are some benefits to 7mm person for a cordalette.  Yes is is bulkier and heavier than dyneema or tech cord but it is also much more durable and a lot cheaper.  It also depends on the type of climbing a person is doing. I do a lot of multi pitch, alpine and big wall and for those things I like 7mm. In the event that you have to bail off a route that doesn't have fixed anchors I much prefer 7mm perlon.  It can be easily cut and left as a rap anchor and it knots much better than dyneema or tech cord.  Perlon is also much easier to use in rescue situations in terms of building a klemheist hauling system  or setting up a tandem rappel.  Cordalette can also be untied and used to lengthen a rappel with e reapshner (spelling)