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El Potero Chico and Rockfall
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Does anyone know who this guy is that is dropping rocks on people in El Portero Chico and calling this "route development"? |
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(Paste Michael Jackson eating popcorn meme here) |
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Check the FB page, I am sure it will pop up there. |
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Mmmmm, yeah route developpement usually involves dropping rocks... me and few people climbed that new route he just put up and its super fun, great addition to that crag ! If you are talking about the incident where this guy shows up to the crag last week, while the route developer is already there by himself, hanging on his fixed rope and cleaning in the mid-day mexico sun (mid-week and its off season now also, so kind of a good time to clean routes), and the guy has the balls to ask the route developper to be careful and stop cleaning because he wants to climb a route close by. Then gets mad and starts yelling and crying when the route developper tells him to f* off. But stills goes on and climb the route right beside the route developper lol ! oooh i wish i could post his instagram story of the "incident", looked exactly like some teenage girl tik tok crying because his feelings got hurt. By the way there was no "incident", no ones got hurt excepts someone's ego... dont know why you post this in the injury forum... Most of potrero is laughing at the poor guy for the way he's dealing with it, he's trying to thrash the reputation of the route developper, who is also a guide here, telling bunch of lies of how unsafe he is with clients etc, which is completely false |
davyt vuchi wrote:  |
J Dwrote: It sounds like the poor fellow is suffering an extended bout of heat stroke. |
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"No good deed goes unpunished." Boy does that one apply to route development. I won't pretend to know what's happening in EPC this week, but we seem to be at a point where new climbers need to be taught things that used to be obvious, such as: --If you see/hear large rocks falling off of a cliff, you might want to climb somewhere else. I can't think of a place where this is more easily accomplished than EPC. --The routes you enjoy outside were not financed by your parents' taxes or your gym dues. Someone went out on their own time and dime and trundled rocks. |
davyt vuchi wrote: I dunno dude, not disagreeing with what you saw, but the response (and similar responses elsewhere) seem a tad overblown. Royal Robbins said the same in Yosemite. As did John Salathe before him. It’s analogous to the old George Carlin bit about there are two kinds of drivers, idiots and maniacs. Anyone driving slower than you is an idiot. Anyone faster than you is a maniac. It’s largely similar in climbing. Anyone climbing longer than me is a crusty curmudgeon, anyone started after me is shitshow Gumby. I do pay close attention to who is ABOVE me, before climbing, but otherwise the rest is “meh” and typically warrants little more than an eye roll or a chuckle (or, to be sure, full on merciless slagging here in the forums of course) If it really was as bad as some make it out, the annual accidents report would be bible thick. Bottom line, I’d still climb at EPC. |
Tradibanwrote: No. It's inexperience. |
Marc801 Cwrote: Right, sport climbers offer none. |
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Might be of interest and sounds related - Luke Mehall’s experience https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4-s8XoO59t/?igsh=MTVhZDFoN2ZqdTh5ZQ== |
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Does he give details in parts 1 and 2? (Can’t watch them without signing up, and he doesn’t give details in parts 3 and 4). Some people on here said to just climb in a location away from the developer. But at many areas, you’d have to cross beneath the developer to get to the other part of the crag. Is this developer unwilling to pause his trundling for a couple minutes as people inevitably have to pass beneath? Or is the area such that you could just approach each part of the wall by different trails, avoiding the developer altogether? Developers gotta develop. And craggers gotta crag. So I’m curious why Luke and the developer couldn’t work it out at the cliff (without me signing up with IG, or going through fb). |
Jim Twrote: Essentially part 1-3 he spoke of coming to climb at a very popular wall, personally knows the developer and has assisted him in the past/been friendly with him. Called up to indicate their intentions and to be careful above. Developer was a jerk. Luke proceeded to climb. Huge trundle barely missed his belayer. Luke engaged with developer - said worst interaction he’s ever had in his many years of climbing. He waited a few days before posting because he was angry The intention of sharing was that developers need to be aware of people below - especially at very popular areas, can’t expect to not have people climbing around them. Don’t be a jerk, and don’t endanger other people. I think that just about captures it. He also related other stories, observations about this individual that were also mentioned in another thread on MP (since deleted) - Spanish guide who yells at his clients and uses unsafe practices. Luke has/is reporting to the Spanish mountain guide association. |
Jim Twrote: You can watch his part one on his instagram feed he did put the videos back up, where he clearly explain the mistake he makes and then still blames the other guy... https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4-yWj9LICd/?igsh=OGh6Z3R3YTNmMTE2 You show up to a crag, the route developper is already there working, no other climbers around, you make the decision to still climb beside, you then have to accept the risk. By the way this is a very small crag that you dont need to walk to access anything. Luke could have easily choose to let the guy work for the day and go climb something else, after all luke is there all season long, its not like it was his only day to try his project. As i said before it looks more like Luke has a big ego because hes been in potrero alot and thinks that he should have priority to climb his project over someone else cleaning a new route.... Poor luke, always felt like he was a good guy before this incident, but right now the way he is attacking and trying to trash the reputation on the other guy by contacting his guiding agency and telling bunch of weird stories about him doesnt really make sense. cmon grow up, you made a bad decision, someone screamed at you, you screamed back at them, take a deep breath and go grab an ice cream. Talked to alot of people around potrero this past week, its been a hot topic around margaritas lately, and obviously everyone agrees that luke is overeacting soooo much, i still havent heard a single bad story about the other guide that was cleaning the route, even tho luke claims lots of people told him some bad stuff about him ? Like what ? Ive seen the guide around lots, alwqys seemed very friendly, always nice to his clients, and everyone else around here seems to only say positive things about him too... so sorry luke, hard to believe youre not just making up all of theses stories about him just because he screamed at you for acting irresponsibly... |
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Do you know why this issue never comes up? Because people know you can't drop rocks on other people. This one is a no brainer. If there are people below you, you cannot trundle. Nothing else matters. You were there first? Who gives a shit? you don't get to kill someone. You can have a conversation of course and try to convince people to leave, but if they don't the only choice is to stop dropping rocks. Putting up a route at a popular area you always run this risk. Could Luke have handled this differently? Sure. Like a lot of dangerous scenarios in climbing, it's the result of compounded mistakes, not a single mistake. If I were Luke, I probably would have gone somewhere else. But if I was that Spanish guide, and Luke stayed, I would have stopped cleaning rock. Them's the rules. It's happened to me before, working on a new route and people showed up. Too bad for me, had to rap and climb something else. I thought Luke was pretty nice about it, if this had happened to me I would have taken anything the guy left on the ground and tied his rope to something inconvenient. |
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I think I saw this in a movie…  |
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Nice try. If you're cleaning routes on choss things are going to come down. Ergo - you don't get to keep cleaning with people below you. Again, there is a reason this issue never comes up, despite thousands of choss routes getting bolted every year, because responsible people know you can't do it. I do not care about ice climbing. |
Soiled 800-fill Down Boxerswrote: I believe it. your name implies you are deathly afraid of shrinkage |
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I don't know what is going on with your double posts and your muffed quotes but it doesn't matter. Whether "intentional" or not, it simply does not matter. You cannot clean new routes on choss with people below. It's not ice climbing. Yes, rocks do break off on established routes and this is a hazard. It is compounded by 1000x when someone is on virgin choss mining a route. So yeah, you can't do it. It isn't an assumption of the risk situation, you have crossed way over the line into gross negligence. Remember: "Stay safe and try to be kind to your fellow climbers." Oh I see - so if someone refuses your demand to make way, you tell them you might accidentally kill them? Sorry, you don't get to do that. And a developer can guarantee your safety - by ceasing any cleaning activity. You swinging on choss and bolting a new route does not take precedence over other people's safety, sorry. Developers do not get special rights to endanger others, no matter how special you want to tell yourself you are because you are A Developer. I would ask who is the narcissistic asshole here - the person on the ground, at an established crag who wants to climb, or the person who thinks they have a right to endanger them, because they are already up on a rope. Another edit - JD I am not Luke nor do I know him. I understand that you cannot tell the difference between March and February (my account creation date), maybe have another margarita. I do not want my opinions attached to Luke - he has been forthright and put his face and opinion out there, not sure why you think he would need to create an anonymous account. I admit I am shocked about how callous many here seem to be about an easily preventable hazard. JD, I found your approach particularly pathetic. "The whole Potrero?" Ok big man. I would repeat what I said at first - this situation does not come up often, because people know you can't do it. You can't close a crag because you want to or were there first, you can't scrub choss above other people, and if your callous disregard for the safety of others results in injury, it is your fault. You had the power to stop it. |
Soiled 800-fill Down Boxerswrote: Hi luke ! Thanks for joining the conversation (account created just after the argument). Are your trouser filled because you were scared of using your real account, or because of that little rock that fell close to you ? Have you tried wiping your tears with it ? Im sorry but it doesnt matter that you are a content creator and have lots of followers on your instagram, doesnt give you priority over anything. You were still wrong to climb beside someone already up on his fixed ropes cleaning a new route. Your ex-girlfriend's only fans has way more followers than your instagram, and i still dont give her priority over anyone else. |
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My takeaway is this: Luke knowingly put himself in an incredibly dangerous situation and got pissed that it was, in fact, dangerous. |
