New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #28

Todd, thank you for posting the video about Maria and sharing your encounter with her.  Pretty amazing also to see the faces of some of the names that I’ve heard about and always wondered about, especially Johnny Woodward.  

I wanted to mention something pretty cool: I’ve been listening to a WHOOP podcast on the effect of exercise on the brain.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/5xPtmhTEp5YUxVYSdqHZms?si=NkAHJ9EhSDioR93Yelzetg&context=spotify%3Ashow%3A0yFoBgekRMM9lN0xMMczL7

What interested me was how the brain is affected by movement. Dr Lisa Barrett seemed to be saying that the brain grows or atrophies due to signals from the body during exercise.(I will go back for another listen and pull out some quotes.)  Exercise directly impacts the brain in every respect.

The reason I was so interested in her podcast is because I have been noticing some big changes in my own ability to recall, solve puzzles and stay focused, and I think it is directly related to climbing – – specifically to hard climbing that requires fast thinking and decision-making.  My brain is just working faster and better than ever but I didn’t know why exactly.

My reflexes are also greatly improved and that’s just something I wouldn’t have expected getting older. Time and again if something falls off a shelf I catch it midair. If I trip I catch myself more quickly. 

Just for the heck of it I started to take a series of brain tests by a company called Staying Sharp through AARP, starting when I was 55 and then annually after that.  It’s 30 to 45 minutes of online testing, everything from working a maze to recalling long series of words and numbers. It grades you on recall and quickness, ability to hold your attention, puzzle solving.  So I have those scores from every year. I would have thought that when I was in a high powered very demanding job my performance would have been the best. But instead in the five years I’ve been climbing my scores have improved each year until this last test where I landed in the 95th percentile on several tests. 

In other words, I think climbing is good for the brain.  

—-

Guy, thank you, as usual for your words of encouragement, but I sure need to say that in no way do I think of myself as superior, and if you were climb with me for a day, you would probably be thinking I need to get off the rock.   However, I turned some kind of corner recently where it feels like a real transformation is occurring inside and out… and I don’t know how to explain it to anyone.

Tony tries to empathize—he’ll say “So it’s like football where you just go hard?”, or “ maybe it’s like a good game of fast ball?” His favorite analogy is golf.. he enjoyed the beauty of different golf courses and also that his best games were when he let go of overthinking and just got into some kind of zone.  But really he has a hard time imagining doing anything that is not a team sport—or even WHY you would do something that is not competitive with a clear winner and loser.  He still draws a blank over the headspace I’m in for hours after a day of climbing.   

BTW— Garmin treated me really well. a tech guy discussed all my options and we decided the best thing was just to disable the device completely so it can never be used and if I wanted to file a police report they would work with the police on recovery. And then they recommended a less expensive device that would better fit my needs and gave it to me at about half price 

Lori - I have worked out my own warm-up routine after sifting through a lot of different sources over a long period of time. It's what works for me. The only advice I could give you is to do the same for yourself. There is a mountain of different books and websites these days dealing with rock climbing training, both for warm-up programs and endurance training. A lot of it is geared towards climbing much harder than I ever dream of, but it's pretty easy to dumb it down to a level more suitable for me. I'd be glad to show you what I've come up with if you're interested.

And, for the record, it's been many years since I did a heel-hook.

Lori Milaswrote:

BTW— Garmin treated me really well. a tech guy discussed all my options and we decided the best thing was just to disable the device completely so it can never be used and if I wanted to file a police report they would work with the police on recovery. And then they recommended a less expensive device that would better fit my needs and gave it to me at about half price 

I have golf gear from Garmin. Really great customer service.

You may want to put an Apple Tag into your more expensive stuff? At least you could track where things go?

Dave McLeod has a good video on how he trains for endurance.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIlj2exMlW8

"When I prepared to climb Rhapsody, the first E11 trad route in the world (and also my first 8c+!) my endurance training was really simple. Personal anecdotes from training have their limitations but many of you ask me how I train endurance and in the absence of good science to guide us, I keep it pretty simple based on principles of basic physiology."

From the true story files...I had my Garmin watch fall off my truck (oops) when I was driving back from a mountain bike ride a few years back. The rest is a pretty wild story about the (incredibly good) person who found it. So the guy who found it contacted Garmin, told them he'd found this watch laying in the road and to see if they could give him the email attached to the watch account on Garmin Connect so he could send an email and try to get the watch back to the owner. They flatly refused. Sort of ironic, given that even the US gov't has sold my email to spammers. Anyways...a couple days later, for no particular reason, I log into Garmin Connect and I notice that there are new activities saved for the watch (an activity is where you turn the watch on to record mileage and effort on a hike, run, bike ride, etc.). So I do a little more looking... someone has turned the watch on and done some short walks with it up north of where I live. Hmmm... so I jump in the truck and drive up to where the activities start and end and knock on the door. A teenage kid comes to the door and I start telling him this story about how my watch has reached out to me from the grave and I'm wondering if he's the one who found it. He's amazed and says "Wait, can you go with me to the garage? My dad has to hear this too." Long story short (sorta), the dad had found my watch and the kid was tech savvy enough to realize that if he recorded some action on the watch, maybe I'd see it and show up. Kind of reanimated some faith in the human species for me... 

p.s. Sidecar comment on the brand... Garmin is legendary for having really good hardware, but utterly pathetic software to go with it.

The Dave Mcleod video is a perfect example of what I was talking about regarding endurance training advice. Keep in mind he is trying to improve from a pathetic 5.13d level to a more respectable 5.14d.  What he is doing is what is often referred to as ARC training. In his case, he's climbing for three sets of 40 minutes, five days a week, keeping the intensity level very low - "no pump" as he says. I can only guess how hard he might climb without getting a pump, but I'm guessing it would probably be pretty darn hard for me. For an older and weaker climber, trying to go from, let's say, 5.8 to 5.10a, I might adjust this to 20 minutes on the rock (or gym wall), one or two sets per day, two or three days a week. One other issue to be aware of - these (relatively) long workouts can aggravate any finger, elbow, and shoulder problems you might already have.

C Miller wrote:

Remember, keep those gates how you found them!

Great story.

The gates haven't been there for years now, BTW.

Long live the pioneers
Rebels and mutineers
Go forth and have no fear

I replaced my stolen shoes with TC pros sized down a half and laced them up tight like Guy advised and behold, the edging went great.  I love those edges! But I am climbing weak, and it’s frustrating.  I need Bob to come back and set things straight.

Also, Tony has been sneezing and coughing up a lung for a week and swore to me it was allergies then announced yesterday “I’m really sick!”.  He is seriously ill.   I feel like I’m fighting some off as well and I’m on my way to Walgreens to pick up a Covid test some kind of drug. 

Brandt I would really like to get together with you to talk about those warm-ups and also what you were describing in your previous posts.  You are always so generous… thank you! 

Brandt Allenwrote:

The Dave Mcleod video is a perfect example of what I was talking about regarding endurance training advice. Keep in mind he is trying to improve from a pathetic 5.13d level to a more respectable 5.14d.  What he is doing is what is often referred to as ARC training. In his case, he's climbing for three sets of 40 minutes, five days a week, keeping the intensity level very low - "no pump" as he says. I can only guess how hard he might climb without getting a pump, but I'm guessing it would probably be pretty darn hard for me. For an older and weaker climber, trying to go from, let's say, 5.8 to 5.10a, I might adjust this to 20 minutes on the rock (or gym wall), one or two sets per day, two or three days a week. One other issue to be aware of - these (relatively) long workouts can aggravate any finger, elbow, and shoulder problems you might already have.

I had done 4x4 on V2/3 combos 4 months ago, it seemed to help? One of my partners said I needed peak strength improvements two months ago.  That’s why weighted hangs are on my training schedule. Maybe it’s time to ARC as well…

Todd Berlier wrote:

this is an amazing video.

please watch everyone. Maria had a impact on my life: i had quit working at Black Diamond and was getting my pre-requisites done at the university of utah to try to get into vet school. i was struggling in a intro physics class and spending a lot of time at the professors office hours. i was walking down the hallway to leave and heard my name and turned to see Maria in her office. she beckoned me in to sit down and we chatted for a few minutes about life after BD and she offered words of encouragement that made me feel like i could rule the world. 

Beautiful. Thank you for sharing this! 

Ladies! I have found the secret to improved climbing performance for us!  Just be more optimistic!

Cool story Greg. For some reason it reminds me of Field of Dreams.

I’m turning in to some sort of classic older mentor climbing dude. A little less than a year ago I hooked up with someone wanting to learn roped climbing in the gym and I took her on her first TR climb, then a lot more TR sessions then last week I took her up a couple of easy short trad routes. Then today she brought her friend along from the gym, hard indoor boulderer, first time on a rope. I really enjoy showing how a TR is set up, explaining the set up etc etc. 

I’d really like to make a transition to a TR guide. Nothing significant, just showing peeps TRing.  

phylp phylpwrote:

Ladies! I have found the secret to improved climbing performance for us!  Just be more optimistic!

That's great, but what about us guys?

Todd Berlier wrote:

this is an amazing video.

please watch everyone. Maria had a impact on my life: i had quit working at Black Diamond and was getting my pre-requisites done at the university of utah to try to get into vet school. i was struggling in a intro physics class and spending a lot of time at the professors office hours. i was walking down the hallway to leave and heard my name and turned to see Maria in her office. she beckoned me in to sit down and we chatted for a few minutes about life after BD and she offered words of encouragement that made me feel like i could rule the world. 

Inspiring.

The women climbers at my gym are pretty amazing too, and half the high level climbers.

Carl Schneiderwrote:

I’d really like to make a transition to a TR guide. Nothing significant, just showing peeps TRing.  

Hi Carl, you might be interested in this book that I coauthored with Jason Martin:

Rock Climbing: The AMGA Single Pitch Manual

It's the textbook for the American Mountain Guides Association's Single Pitch Instructor Course, formerly known as "Toprope Site Manager."

Wondering what is wrong with you men!! Tony and I are driving down the hill to Sherman’s Deli and he just cannot go the speed limit. He’s pulling g-force down the grade and I asked him to slow A LITTLE.  3 minutes later he yells “IM IN AGONY! You’re turning my insides upside down. If you weren’t in the car I’d be on the 10 by now!”  

I ask “Where’s the fucking fire?”

I tell Tony he needs a Ferrari so he can downshift and clutch through turns. I always get the same spiel… “I drove 5 million miles through the worst weather and I cannot change this late in life.”  Meanwhile I’m doing my meditation breathing… 

Marked safe:

Li Huwrote:

I had done 4x4 on V2/3 combos 4 months ago, it seemed to help? One of my partners said I needed peak strength improvements two months ago.  That’s why weighted hangs are on my training schedule. Maybe it’s time to ARC as well…

Given how much weight you can hang with versus your grades, ARCing will definitely help your technique and increase your overall level.  I do it on auto belays, climbing up and down, and do more of a threshold ARC where I climb up harder routes and get somewhat pumped, then recover while climbing down and up easier routes.  You really have to work your technique hard in order to avoid pumping out and to keep climbing continuously for thirty minutes.

4 by 4s are great, but train power endurance, not  endurance.   Power endurance is the least trainable of the three energy systems, and your power endurance ability will be limited by your power and endurance.  Therefore , those two energy systems should be trained almost always, with power endurance training only intermittently when you are after a hard route or onsight.

Another good way to train endurance in the gym is to climb routes that you get slightly to moderately pumped on, but don’t fall (if you fall because you are pumped you are well into the power endurance energy system and are no longer training endurance). Do this with a partner, switching off with a 1:1 climb to rest ratio, and try to do at least 10 routes (even more is better).  

Google “Eric Horst energy systems” for a deep dive.  He just turned 60 and has recently climbed two 5.13c routes (his hardest routes ever), so it is definitely working for him.

Ward Smithwrote:

Given how much weight you can hang with versus your grades, ARCing will definitely help your technique and increase your overall level.  I do it on auto belays, climbing up and down, and do more of a threshold ARC where I climb up harder routes and get somewhat pumped, then recover while climbing down and up easier routes.  You really have to work your technique hard in order to avoid pumping out and to keep climbing continuously for thirty minutes.

4 by 4s are great, but train power endurance, not  endurance.   Power endurance is the least trainable of the three energy systems, and your power endurance ability will be limited by your power and endurance.  Therefore , those two energy systems should be trained almost always, with power endurance training only intermittently when you are after a hard route or onsight.

Another good way to train endurance in the gym is to climb routes that you get slightly to moderately pumped on, but don’t fall (if you fall because you are pumped you are well into the power endurance energy system and are no longer training endurance). Do this with a partner, switching off with a 1:1 climb to rest ratio, and try to do at least 10 routes (even more is better).  

Google “Eric Horst energy systems” for a deep dive.  He just turned 60 and has recently climbed two 5.13c routes (his hardest routes ever), so it is definitely working for him.

Thanks for all this! I’m adding ARC and going to look at making a decent training program and look into Horst!

Lori,

Lori Milaswrote:

Wondering what is wrong with you men!! Tony and I are driving down the hill to Sherman’s Deli and he just cannot go the speed limit. He’s pulling g-force down the grade and I asked him to slow A LITTLE.  3 minutes later he yells “IM IN AGONY! You’re turning my insides upside down. If you weren’t in the car I’d be on the 10 by now!”  

I ask “Where’s the fucking fire?”

I tell Tony he needs a Ferrari so he can downshift and clutch through turns. I always get the same spiel… “I drove 5 million miles through the worst weather and I cannot change this late in life.”  Meanwhile I’m doing my meditation breathing… 

Just got a Subaru Crosstrek Wilderness. It’s not as fast on clean roads as my old Legacy. Prior to that I had a Turbo Legacy. The conversations within the cockpit went pretty much as yours, except often a fist clenches the passenger door handle with a pronounced exhalation.

With the Crosstrek, I drive conservative. Often 5 under the posted speeds, and I let faster vehicles pass . No more clenched fists…

Marked safe:

Well, this may be the real reason Tony was in such a rush.   

Lori Milaswrote:

Wondering what is wrong with you men!! Tony and I are driving down the hill to Sherman’s Deli and he just cannot go the speed limit. He’s pulling g-force down the grade and I asked him to slow A LITTLE.  3 minutes later he yells “IM IN AGONY! You’re turning my insides upside down. If you weren’t in the car I’d be on the 10 by now!”  

I ask “Where’s the fucking fire?”

I tell Tony he needs a Ferrari so he can downshift and clutch through turns. I always get the same spiel… “I drove 5 million miles through the worst weather and I cannot change this late in life.”  Meanwhile I’m doing my meditation breathing… 

A second lost to time spent driving  (when not racing) is a second lost in your life.  Besides, driving is just another sport like climbing and I constantly strive to be the best I can be at it.  This requires lots of practice so everytime I see a corner I need to practice going thru it as fast as I possibly can.  One of the reasons I like going away with Guy is that he will let me drive at 90+ percent of maximum without complaining.  I have only once made him say 'whoa' in all the years that I have known him.  Everyone else that rides with me complains a lot more often.  Kris was always great - he would not say a word while in process but would wait until I was done almost killing us and then ask me nicely to 'never do that again please'.

Temps still below freezing but finally - briefly? - above zero which means the snow finally has a bit of moisture which means a ski will actually glide. Made this contraption to use with a kite but going to give it a test drive behind the bike today.  It ain’t towing into Jaws, but Maui doesn’t have polar bears...