How do you avoid backstepping in this situation?

I think the biggest problem is that it obfuscates communication. Most people think it's a free technique and not a rope management situation. I understand that language evolves, but unlike other terms with multiple meanings (e.g. short roping, mixed climbing) these two meanings occur in the same context. 

Whether or not you prefer linguistic prescriptivism or descriptivism this is a situation where this new definition should be opposed simply on grounds of linguistic clarity. Once the gym kids leave the gym they're going to confuse a lot of partners mid lead. 

In the defence of gym workers who are often outdoor climbers any way (I was one a couple of times) I learned lead in a gym and they made us aware that some people use the term backstep erroneously.

Ricky Harlinewrote:

I think the biggest problem is that it obfuscates communication. Most people think it's a free technique and not a rope management situation. I understand that language evolves, but unlike other terms with multiple meanings (e.g. short roping, mixed climbing) these two meanings occur in the same context. 

Whether or not you prefer linguistic prescriptivism or descriptivism this is a situation where this new definition should be opposed simply on grounds of linguistic clarity. Once the gym kids leave the gym they're going to confuse a lot of partners mid lead. 

B: Ricky you're belay-off.

R: What!?!?!

B: Obviously I've got you on belay and you can take off leading. Get with it boomer!

R: Sorry, that just seems indirect.

B: Indirect? Oh good I'll take you off-belay.

R: I think we need to backstep and talk about this a minute.

Rpropswrote:

B: Ricky you're belay-off.

R: What!?!?!

B: Obviously I've got you on belay and you can take off leading. Get with it boomer!

R: Sorry, that just seems indirect.

B: Indirect? Oh good I'll take you off-belay.

R: I think we need to backstep and talk about this a minute.

Thanks, I hate it. 

Only folks who never developed proper footwork or climbing technique when they learned to climb in the gym would ever call "stepping behind the rope" "back stepping".   This has already been covered extensively by Bisharat's rant on this subject.  https://eveningsends.com/urgent-psa-back-stepping-is-not-rope-behind-leg  

And to answer the question about avoiding stepping behind the rope,  Extend the draw and get a proper belay. Pretty simple straightforward stuff they don't teach in Leading 101. 

Artem Vee wrote:

This thread has galvanized my usage of the word "backstep" as what I say when somebody backsteps the rope.

I can't wait to see how beet-red the trad dads get over it in person (uhm ACKSUALY...) before trying to convince me of how rad and cool of an "outdoor" climber they are - and how how unrad and uncool of an "indoor" climber I must be, for using it.

Personally, none of the shit that is discussed in this thread has ever bothered me. I've always generally known what people mean when they say things, even if they used a slightly different term to describe what they are describing, and I'm stupid as hell. Why are you guys struggling with this so much? All it takes is paying attention to the context of the situation and managing your feelings when they start to turn into big feelings over a word.

What will be truly hilarious is when the beta is to back step with your right foot and then reach out right, and you will be wrapping the rope around your leg. 

Artem Vee wrote:

"Alright so you're going to backstep with your left, but don't backstep the rope"

vs

"Alright so you're going to backstep with your left, but watch your leg on the rope"

Both seem perfectly fine to me. Nothing confusing, and nothing to get mad over. To backstep the rope is to backstep the rope. To backstep is to backstep. Easy.

No way, I’m super mad.

AV is a big boy now

Unless it was already proposed.

N Fuckstep: Position where the climbers leg is behind the rope, which could result in a flipping fall

Ex: Those moves were really tangling him into a fuckstep with his rope

V Fuckstepping: to place leg behind rope, resulting in a fuckstep

Adj Fuckstepped

Ex: That route is so fuckstepped. People are always flipping on it

M Mwrote:

AV is a big boy now

AV is a child tradiban wannabe. 

Yo, Artem, I get not caring about what people think. I also don't give a shit what people think, and actively fight against several elements of climbing culture which often makes people see me as a weirdo. To which I say good. I don't want to fit into climbing culture in some aspects, especially the juvenile machismo parts. 

But your argument is just bad. Logically it doesn't make sense to call it back stepping. Please describe to me in detail what your leg is behind which causes it to make sense to call this rope management scenario "back stepping." Your leg being in front of the rope is back stepping?

Getouttahere 

A different belayer might help. Damn that rope is tight. If the rope isn't that tight, it will lay on the rock and the climber will most likely fall over it rather than into it. The other part of the rope can be managed by foot placement.

P.S. It's called getting your foot behind the rope but hey, you do you. I will judge you though and I don't expect you to care.

E MuuDwrote:

A different belayer might help. Damn that rope is tight. If the rope isn't that tight, it will lay on the rock and the climber will most likely fall over it rather than into it. The other part of the rope can be managed by foot placement.

P.S. It's called getting your foot behind the rope but hey, you do you. I will judge you though and I don't expect you to care.

Can you read? It has been agreed that it is called Fuckstepping now.

John Clarkwrote:

Can you read? It has been agreed that it is called Fuckstepping now.

And this whole time I thought fuckstepping is the dance you do while listening to dubstep. Thanks for clearing that up! Whew! 

Cireouslywrote:

And this whole time I thought fuckstepping is the dance you do while listening to dubstep. Thanks for clearing that up! Whew! 

Just doing the Lorde’s work. No need to thank me

philip bonewrote:

What’s back clipping?

When you're on lead and the climber side of the rope is exiting out out the back (rock side) of the draw or piece as its hanging. This creates a twist in the rope around the draw/piece that is likely to unclip the piece/draw if the leader falls. The correct way is for the leader side to exit the front of the draw and the belayer side to be on the back (rock) side. That way if the leader falls the rope engages the bottom of the biner away from the gate. 

Rpropswrote:

B: Ricky you're belay-off.

R: What!?!?!

B: Obviously I've got you on belay and you can take off leading. Get with it boomer!

R: Sorry, that just seems indirect.

B: Indirect? Oh good I'll take you off-belay.

R: I think we need to backstep and talk about this a minute.

This is why freedom of the hills should be required reading lmafo

I think the most alarming thing to come out of this thread is to find out I’m aligned with Andrew Bisharat….I'm rethinking my position 

I started climbing in 1990 and was mentored by alpinists in Alaska who started climbing in the 60's and 70's...they would yell out "don't backstep the rope!" "You're backstepping the rope" 

The body movement is backstepping and there is a qualifier when it is over the rope. Not difficult to understand and must go back historically for me to have learned it when i did.

Once again mountainproj shows how backwards and behind it is. Let's talk about "pinkpointing" or promote "hip belays"

“Because the back-step malapropism is everywhere, some people have argued to me, we should accept defeat and allow “back step” to have this secondary definition, and just move on with our lives.

My only thing is, well … NO! We don’t actually have to accept living in a dumber world simply because we’re too lazy to bother correcting people who don’t know what they’re talking about as they just started climbing yesterday.”, Andrew Bisharat 

I love this quote.  People are doing amazing things today. However, you become a pariah if you criticize anybody who is doing something incorrect or wrong.  You are told you are not being inclusive and/or who are you to judge.  Maybe, we can all have a trophy.