New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #28

Li Huwrote:

The First Amendment protects all forms of media.

I should start off with a statement that I’m neither for nor against any particular media even if I disagree with the content. What I’m against is regulating it. The law should regulate actions and not what people think or feel.

If the desire is to create a “safe” media, they can advertise it as “safer than TikTok” or any other social media. Let the market decide if it succeeds or not.

What Congress does and shouldn’t do is to restrict anything based upon the personal bias of its members, and should adhere to its own laws.

If precedent is set to allow government to regulate businesses and how they are run, it could lead to dramatic shifts in the market depending upon which parties take control of any or all branches of government.

There’s ‘regulating’ and then there’s ’Regulating’ and they both have the same end result.

Societies regulate all the time, via showing disdain for some actions, praise for others. We use gossip, for instance, to learn what’s In and what’s Out; what the societal norms are. 

Dispense with a society or culture determining by Regulation or other means what the norms are, what’s allowed or disallowed and I don’t think you now have a society. It’s just a gaggle.

God I feel strong!  Not strong “enough” , not strong enough to send my routes, but Strong enough to have a little swag and the beginnings of confidence. So is this how it goes? Is this why you feel a little bit invincible on rock?

I have thought a lot about leading some easier routes lately because I feel much less fear and more strength out there but honestly I’m just so engaged with climbing itself. It’s still not off the table.

I’ve been all in, either climbing or recovering from Climbing.. As Todd said “trying stuff” to see what works and what doesn’t. But especially just showing up and giving it my all.  

I’d be curious to see how everyone’s body composition here compares to the general population but I am convinced that I have built muscle and strength where no one out there seems to think you can.  ITS A CONSPIRACY THEORY!    We’ve been sold a pack of lies (that it’s all downhill and you can never again have marvelous physique).    BTW, those of you who watch TV have you noticed that almost all the ads are for pills?

What I am asking now is how to increase endurance while climbing. I push my muscles to failure, but I still need them a little longer! There are parts of this climb where I’m just worn out. I can’t smear another foot or crimp another thin edge!  So is this just a matter of continuing to work out on rock?

My Whoop has been telling me that I am spending a large percentage of my time in zone 4 and 5, in the highest heart rate zones, and that this is developing “fast twitch muscles“ but also the need for more rest for recovery. What is a fasttwitch muscle exactly?

This here is worth the price of pain:

I was so astonished when I actually got onto the below rock, and all I could say was “how?“ I wish I could warp speed ahead and have this talent already but perhaps it’s going to be what Randy and certainly Bob have said – – mileage.  Also, maybe Russ’ toes are a superpower on this kind of rock.

Can y’all share what you’re doing/climbing and how you’re staying strong?

I’m planting tomatoes with my fingers crossed and if Russ needs to vent a little and shoot something he’s welcome to come hang out in my backyard.

Jan, you got your stuff in the ground yet? Helen? 

Lori, I haven't seen you mention ( or don't recall you doing so) reading any of the many good books on training for climbing. They all contain sections on how to build endurance and stamina and I think they will be helpful to you in this regard. While none are specifically focused on older climbers ( and when they do discuss that topic, their definition of 'older' is still usually considerably younger than many of us!!!!), I believe that the basics they describe are still useful for our 'demographic'---though we do have to listen to our bodies even more than younger folk and be careful to not overdo ( advice I admit I too often ignore!!!). Actually, from what I understand, endurance and stamina are easier to build and maintain as we age than power.
Eric Horst is one writer on climbing training ( I believe that he also has a website) whom I have found to be very helpful over the years. He is also one who does, at least to some extent, discuss training tips for older climbers.

Alan Rubinwrote:

their definition of 'older' is still usually considerably younger than many of us!!!!

Very true, Alan. I have to shake my head when I read something like "Even in your late thirties, you can still climb well for a few more years."

The biggest thing I've noticed for me is the need for a longer recovery time, whether between hard moves on a route, between routes during the day, or between days of climbing or exercising.

Brandt Allenwrote:

Very true, Alan. I have to shake my head when I read something like "Even in your late thirties, you can still climb well for a few more years."

The biggest thing I've noticed for me is the need for a longer recovery time, whether between hard moves on a route, between routes during the day, or between days of climbing or exercising.

Yes, rest and recovery are both increasingly important and necessary as we get older, as is warming up at the start of a 'session'. Again, these are 'rules' that I foolishly tend to ignore!!!!

Alan Rubinwrote:

Yes, rest and recovery are both increasingly important and necessary as we get older, as is warming up at the start of a 'session'. Again, these are 'rules' that I foolishly tend to ignore!!!!

Alan, Brandt, I'm SO glad we are talking about this!  I think sharing notes can be so helpful.

This was my initial climb yesterday at 9 a.m.  How would you warm up for this? 

I just hopped on, knowing it will be a killer start.  so... 'what warm ups'?  Short of doing some basic arm rolls, etc... how do you get ready for hard work?  (The first attempt on this did not go well.)

I'd also be curious to know what rgold does for warmups these days.

Recovery has become a BIG deal for me, in part because it's measurable with my Whoop so I can see what works.  It's a whole new ballgame as an older person.  Again... I'd love to swap tips.  

I am planning to do the unthinkable tomorrow... come back to this same route, after only one day of rest.  I'm curious to see how it goes. 

---

Alan, I did buy several training books for climbing, which were completely overwhelming.  It assumed a virile young 25 year old male training for the Olympics.     I believe I have the Podcast for Eric Horst... I will check that out.  But also, I will not be doing overhanging routes with heel hooks. (Brandt does that!    )  so my training needs may be different.  

Carl... I love that you talked about 'noises'.  There is a point on a route where noises are inevitable... I recognize crux moves now because I am 'vocalizing' without intending to.  I used to threaten to scare the critters with an Adam Ondra yell.  But I never thought to catalogue noises on a Spreadsheet!     

Russ... thanks for the tip on local thievery.  I just got off the phone with Garmin, decided probably not best to locate the thieves and confront them.  We just shut off the device permanently, and I got a heavily discounted upgraded Garmin.  (InReach Mini2).  It looks like there's no device out there that will do all I want it to do... this one works through a cell phone app and I can do almost anything with the two synced.  

Tod, thank you for posting the  Maria film. Sounds like a very special person. 

Lori, I am very far from a training and warm-up guru!!!! Among us, as you noted, Rgold has much better credentials in that regard.

However, I can say that you should review those training books and podcasts again. I strongly doubt that their advice for developing endurance and stamina have anything to do with "heel hooks" or other such techniques. Usually they suggest things such as interval and/or pyramid type exercises. Clearly it is best to do such exercises in a gym or home wall, but you could also workout a curcuit outside as well; such as creating your own circuit of easy boulder problems ( including ones you create for your own needs) or setting aside a day or so a week to top-rope---maybe up/down/up/down---easier routes or develop---part of the mileage some of us talk about.

As far as warming up before climbing, well first consider the approach. Obviously a longer, steeper, more difficult approach will provide a better warm up, than a short and easy one. If you have the latter, then some jogging in place or calisthenics will be a good replacement. Beyond that, a variety of stretching exercises will be very beneficial. I must admit though that, despite knowing this, I don't follow such a routine. Do as I say, not as I do!!!!

Todd, Thank you so much for the links to the two excellent videos.  At Maria's Memorial, Mike Call showed a still unfinished version of his video. It is great to see the final product. And, like you observed about Jonny Woodward, a 3 hour documentary on Maria would only begin to scratch the surface.

Todd thinks for posting that video about Maria she was a most incredible person to say the least. I loved the Valhalla stuff.

Lori… climbing can take you to some incredible head spaces. Nothing wrong with thinking you are superior to regular folks- because you are, we all are. Others can’t possibly know, or imagine what it’s like. Happy to see that you are starting to understand it. That was your goal, No?
Eric Horst has a book “training for climbing” that I highly recommend. Lots of good workouts, but the best and most useful part of the book is a little quiz. You need someone to ask you the Q’s and you answer as quickly as you can and your helper writes down your answer. Then the answers are put into a specific order and the results get analyzed giving you your score. This test will show you your specific weaknesses and he gives you a workout prescription. Try it, it pays off.

Warm ups…. People are different. This was mentioned a few hundred posts back. I always need to do a few climbs that are dead easy. I find that my balance, confidence and strength are slow to work. After I’m warmed up everything just clicks and I don’t get pumped or feel off balance or scared. Kris and Jan were/are just the opposite- just start the day at 5.10 and go.
Find what works best for you.

The planting: It’s finely getting sunny in my backyard and the ground is warming up. The composter is beginning to work and no longer smells like garbage. I have OLH peppers and Basil, Different kinds of tomatoes all sprouted from seeds that are too young and small to make it outside- a few more weeks are needed. So I broke down and bought some “store bought” Peppers and Tomatoes so I can have something in the ground.

I climbed At Indian Cove last Friday and I can say Josh 5.7 dimples felt a lot harder than I remember!

Pretty shitty that your car got “biffed” in front of your home. I feel like if a few thieves got blasted with a 12 gauge whilst committing theft they might second guess themselves. (Oh dear did I say that?)

Any way, go climbing it helps to clear the head of bad thoughts.

Anybody here who wants to spout off about politics should get over to “WideFetish”… Russ’ site. There you will find all sorts of folks who really love a great internet argument. Professionals 

Later 

I'm not here for an argument, I am here for abuse.  no your Not.  ;) 

Guy I thoroughly believe that my stuff is not worth someone's life however having my home/ safe space violated  sucked so badly that  I kind of agree with you on that one.  maybe start with chopping a hand off for 2nd offence....  1st offence a kick to the nut sack...  three strikes you lose a hand... 

Great set of videos Todd.  Bunch of familiar faces and places.  

Too funny...Rollin literally took my job.

Thanks!

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

I'm not here for an argument, I am here for abuse.  no your Not.  ;) 

Guy I thoroughly believe that my stuff is not worth someone's life however having my home/ safe space violated  sucked so badly that  I kind of agree with you on that one.  maybe start with chopping a hand off for 2nd offence....  1st offence a kick to the nut sack...  three strikes you lose a hand... 

Nick… I agree with you. But it’s good to dream about revenge.
Miller - thanks for the nice photos - good to look at and wonder. 

Lori Milaswrote:

...What I am asking now is how to increase endurance while climbing... 

Lori, some will grimace when I say this but I feel for me there are two ways I train endurance.  The first is via doing laps of hardish routes on tope rope with no rest on the route itself and with minimal rest between laps.  I have a grade 21 (5.10d) route I like to do laps of, often in sets (set of 1, mate does 1, set of 2 back to back, mate does, 1, set of 3 back to back, mate does 1, set of 4 back to back etc. The most I've done of this in a sesh is 22 laps). Of course it's important to learn how (and where) to rest on a route but I don't rest at all if I'm working endurance. 

Further to this I even work endurance when I'm bouldering indoors, either by traversing, doing laps of problems (i.e. climbing the problem, down climbing it, climbing it again without touching the floor for laps) or even just down climbing every problem. 

It must be all the evil immigrants committing these crimes, certainly no hard working US citizens commit crimes. ;)

M Mwrote:

It must be all the evil immigrants committing these crimes, certainly no hard working US citizens commit crimes. ;)

If you’re being sarcastic, yeah, agree with there’s much illogical thinking to draw this conclusion. 

Russ Wallingwrote:

Can Garmin activate it to get a location?  Might be worth a try

Garmin won’t lift a finger to do this. I speak from experience.

Todd, Thank you so much for the links to the two excellent videos.  At Maria's Memorial, Mike Call showed a still unfinished version of his video. It is great to see the final product. And, like you observed about Jonny Woodward, a 3 hour documentary on Maria would only begin to scratch the surface.

I also saw the unfinished version, and agree about the final product.  Agreed that 3 hours would only begin to scratch the surface (re: M).

the story of this route is amazing and we would need a 3 hour documentary to scratch the surface of what and how much Jonny Woodward contributed to the climbing world. 

Oh boy, I'm going to need to think about that one for awhile.  A documentary with 3 straight hours of looking at, and hearing about JW?

Thanks Todd, Maria was special and so is JW.  I kid about 3 hrs being a bit much for JW.  We're planning trips for this year and I'm going to end up looking at him for weeks at a time, not just hours. The thing about JW is that he's a great person and friend, not just a great climber.  Like Maria, it would be a challenge to do justice in a documentary.

The Post gym grades about 1 to 2 letter grades lower now. Definitely much more fun and challenging. A year ago the grades were too soft and they seem to be progressing towards rock grades according to a staff member? Though V5 to V6 boulders and above appear to be unchanged in difficulty?

Lowering my target grades and getting back to cruising 5.11c to 5.12a again to gain strength and stamina. 5.12b seems to be my limit again. 5.12c and up are too difficult to climb without making them into projects and obtaining beta.

Will start my warmup and warm down at 5.10d/5.11a to push myself a bit. 5.10d definitely feels more like the old 5.11a. There’s a 5.11b problem that requires a lot of strength. Which I barely got, and was presumed difficult for a climber who had flashed (TR) one of my project 5.12c climbs.

Plan weighted hangs Saturday… trying to get to 20 seconds at 135 pounds added weight. Unless I can lose 10-20 pounds, I think I’ll need to progress to 150 or 180 full hold with slightly bent arms to get harder grades? 20mm is currently only 70 pounds open grip with thumb support.

Going to continue two climbing days separated by a day and hangs and bouldering with two days rest after. That seems better for my climbing.

EDIT: got 135 20 seconds. Plus 90 degree pull-ups with 90/70/45 pounds could not get a full pull-up today so pulled as far up as possible then negatives all the way back down.

Darrell Henselwrote:

I also saw the unfinished version, and agree about the final product.  Agreed that 3 hours would only begin to scratch the surface (re: M).

Oh boy, I'm going to need to think about that one for awhile.  A documentary with 3 straight hours of looking at, and hearing about JW?

Thanks Todd, Maria was special and so is JW.  I kid about 3 hrs being a bit much for JW.  We're planning trips for this year and I'm going to end up looking at him for weeks at a time, not just hours. The thing about JW is that he's a great person and friend, not just a great climber.  Like Maria, it would be a challenge to do justice in a documentary.

SLC had quite the crew BITD.  

When I think of Trench Warfare his name always comes to mind.