It's wet in Red Rock(s)

FrankPSwrote:

Has the manager of that service, or BLM been contacted about this? 

I'm not a legal person, but the relationship of climbers with the BLM has been...strained...to put it nicely.  The last BLM manager, who has since moved on, used "safety" as his coverall to restrict anything he didn't like.  I'm not sure I'd recommend that route.  It appears that the relationship has improved since then, so that's good news.

Charlie Swrote:

I'm not a legal person, but the relationship of climbers with the BLM has been...strained...to put it nicely.  The last BLM manager, who has since moved on, used "safety" as his coverall to restrict anything he didn't like.  I'm not sure I'd recommend that route.  It appears that the relationship has improved since then, so that's good news.

Good point - maybe keep the BLM out of it and address the guide service, only.

I didn’t give the name because I wasn’t personally involved in the incident, but I’ll tell ya it wasn’t NOLS either (I don’t think they have a current permit for guided climbing).
At this point it’s between Brian and the service he hired, which it sounds like he handled with them.
You can also find his Google review of them quite easily. 

EMFR Iwrote:

...You can also find his Google review of them quite easily. 

Thanks. Review is here: https://g.co/kgs/yNEjPt1

I'm curious to know what the company or the guide was thinking, taking out a client on a day after several days of rain. Is the guide service that clued out or do they just not care?!!!

Brian, glad you’re healing up. I don’t think i’d be as gracious as you if a guide dropped me from a TR. 

For anyone else who reads this, Desert Rock Sports took my non climbing friends out for the time of their life a couple of years ago - and they lived to tell everyone. Thanks again for that. 

How is this not “name and shame?” All in all seems really unfair to not mention the company and have all these companies dragged through the gaze of suspicion on this mp thread. Someone carelessly reading this mp thread might think it was one company and not another who is responsible.

Also, strange you dont mention the decision to go guiding on wet rock….. Sounds like this is a critical component of this guiding experience…. And the fact that they only took half off your charge given that you are a loyal customer?

Also someone did raise a good question that got deleted or censored: why did you decide to go out given your past years of climbing on desert sandstone? Your self described “ignorant tourist” attitude isn’t lining up.

Redacted Redactbergwrote:

How is this not “name and shame?” All in all seems really unfair to not mention the company and have all these companies dragged through the gaze of suspicion on this mp thread. Someone carelessly reading this mp thread might think it was one company and not another who is responsible.

Also, strange you dont mention the decision to go guiding on wet rock….. Sounds like this is a critical component of this guiding experience…. And the fact that they only took half off your charge given that you are a loyal customer?

Also someone did raise a good question that got deleted or censored: why did you decide to go out given your past years of climbing on desert sandstone? Your self described “ignorant tourist” attitude isn’t lining up.

Weird as hell to be getting all aggro on a guy sharing his bad experience. You're reading too much into it, chill with the drama.

It raInin

Just to bring this thread back to the topic...it's been raining in RR most of the night and this morning. It's definitely wet. 

Engaging with keyboard warriors isn't my thing -- sorry kids!

tl;dr: 

I got advice on climbing conditions that turned out in hindsight to be wrong.

Stuff broke off.

I got a bad catch and got hurt.  

My personal takeaway is to avoid Red Rocks for at least 10,000 days since the last rainfall or with days with humidity above 50 percent.  That's hyperbole, by the way.  

Check out my OnlyFans site: Only $25 for autographed X-ray films, $20 extra if you want a personalized message.  

Brian Boydwrote:

Check out my OnlyFans site: Only $25 for autographed X-ray films, $20 extra if you want a personalized message.  

^ Link,please.  ;-)

Wishing you a speedy full recovery, Brian.

Redacted Redactbergwrote:

 All in all seems really unfair to not mention the company and have all these companies dragged through the gaze of suspicion on this mp thread. Someone carelessly reading this mp thread might think it was one company and not another who is responsible.

I was going to write a really dumb mock post pretending to be the guide to win “Dumbest Post in the Thread”. But I see the prize has already been awarded.

I wouldn’t have even made it on the podium. 

Hey Guys! Found this link for the rain gauge at the visitors center

https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=RRKN2

Looks like it should rain about 0.2”. Curious on thoughts from you how long the sunny stuff would take to dry out by? 24hours enough? Thursday or Friday?

Thanks!

Given the high humidity, previously saturated rock, lower temps, and more cloudy skies this week, Friday afternoon is a low possibility of mayyyyyyyybe. Saturday is more realistic for sunny crags.

My notes on some of the hazards and lessons that have not been articulated, and that others might find useful:

1. Breaking holds that could hit others down below, or hit and cut your rope, is another risk of climbing on wet rock.
2. Paying attention to the warning signs is critical, as they are your tickets to preventing accidents. For example:
   a) Stop climbing if you are breaking big chalked up holds on well travelled routes —> not only are you permanently damaging climbs, but you can hurt others and yourself
   b) Be alarmed by a climbing partner who thinks its ok to go climbing without sufficient drying time and isn’t humble about it —> the guide’s irreverence to breaking holds and recent rains could have betrayed that you were dealing with someone incompetent who could do you harm.
3. Ego Halo is real. Do your own research, and critically question other’s decisions when it contradicts your knowledge or observation, regardless of their purported experience level.

For me, the ultimate moral of the story is to choose partners who take climbing safety seriously, take responsibility for their mistakes, stay humble, and show willingness to continue learning no matter their experience level. Despite having overwhelming luck with random partners, over the years I have made several mistakes in this department due to my casual and forgiving attitude.

In this regard, it is good to know that even guides are capable of such irresponsibility.
It is also good to know that there are people who, despite even sustaining an injury, can continue to maintain a blasé attitude to climbing safety. 

This is my new favorite website over the typical NWS rain gage sites.  Paints a bigger picture.

These are flood gages that measure a number of things, one of them being rainfall.  You can zoom to the location you want, change the time interval, all that good stuff:
https://gustfront.ccrfcd.org/gagemap/gagemap.html

Robert Vasilieffwrote:

Hey Guys! Found this link for the rain gauge at the visitors center

https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=RRKN2

Looks like it should rain about 0.2”. Curious on thoughts from you how long the sunny stuff would take to dry out by? 24hours enough? Thursday or Friday?

Thanks!

RRKN2 is what I use for https://wetrockpolice.com/redrock, that rain gauge is generally good for catching conditions at the first 3 pullouts but precip can vary a lot more the deeper you get into the canyons so I would take your climbing destination into account when reading it. 

Charlie's link (https://gustfront.ccrfcd.org/gagemap/gagemap.html) is also a great resource for spotting inconsistencies and big picture conditions like he said himself. RRNK2 is as far into the canyon as we can read unless you want to go with a predictive precipitation site (there are a couple that have been shared around but I can't recall their names)

My two cents: with partly cloudy and low winds forecasted it's going to take some time to dry, likely no chance by Thursday and it really depends how much cloud cover we get to say for Friday, but in any case any crags with partial shade will likely still be wet and you'd be in some danger pulling hard on that stuff.

Redacted Redactbergwrote:

I have made several mistakes in this department due to my casual and forgiving attitude.

Largely agree with the advice in your last comment but still couldn’t resist haha.

Brian, that's a crazy story. Thanks for risking some critique to share it. Hope you heal up fast!

Collin Hwrote:

Largely agree with the advice in your last comment but still couldn’t resist haha.

Brian, that's a crazy story. Thanks for risking some critique to share it. Hope you heal up fast!

After some of the day-turned-all-nighter epics I’ve had with dishonest partners, you start to get a little bit less agreeable, and a little wiser. For example, Brian’s seemingly absent desire to participate in a rigorous sift through the decisions that might have prevented or led to the accident mirrors former bad experiences with those who are unwilling to debrief. 

It is, though, like I said, a good reminder of what’s at stake in climbing, what’s required, and that not every partner is gonna be on the same page.

Has anyone hiked out to any of the sunnier crags today? Is anything good to go or are most things still wet?