It's wet in Red Rock(s)

Thought I would add a datapoint.  Went out with a guide service two saturdays ago.  It had rained on both Thursday/Friday, looks like 1/3 of an inch accumulation.  Temps were in the 40s to 50s, humidity about 40 to 80 percent on the days prior to climbing.  Was told we were good to go vis-a-vis wet rock, and I'm just a dumb tourist.  I'm skeptical of sandstone under the best of circumstances, so I'm tapping and testing stuff, generally moving like I'm on 5.11 friction carrying nitroglycerin in my chalkbag.  A well-chalked mars bar-sized jug pops off on the warm-up with only moderate pressure. Three routes later, another hold breaks off down low under minimal pressure.  Toproping, but lots of slack in the rope, and I bounce off a ledge, then groundfall into a pillar with my back, narrowly missing my spine.  Some fractured ribs and a hearty helping of blunt force trauma.  Ortho says six weeks to heal up, then however long to recover lost time -- basically, my spring season is toast.  There were substantial pools of standing water at the base of both routes -- noticed the first one when I was belaying, second pool when I landed next to it.  My takeaway: If you go out too soon, you can break a lot more than some holds.  

Brian Boyd, so sorry to hear this. It’s totally fu$&ed that a guide service took you out under those conditions. Again, sorry, and I hope you heal quickly. 

Brian Boydwrote:

Thought I would add a datapoint.  Went out with a guide service two saturdays ago.  It had rained on both Thursday/Friday, looks like 1/3 of an inch accumulation.  Temps were in the 40s to 50s, humidity about 40 to 80 percent on the days prior to climbing.  Was told we were good to go vis-a-vis wet rock, and I'm just a dumb tourist.  I'm skeptical of sandstone under the best of circumstances, so I'm tapping and testing stuff, generally moving like I'm on 5.11 friction carrying nitroglycerin in my chalkbag.  A well-chalked mars bar-sized jug pops off on the warm-up with only moderate pressure. Three routes later, another hold breaks off down low under minimal pressure.  Toproping, but lots of slack in the rope, and I bounce off a ledge, then groundfall into a pillar with my back, narrowly missing my spine.  Some fractured ribs and a hearty helping of blunt force trauma.  Ortho says six weeks to heal up, then however long to recover lost time -- basically, my spring season is toast.  There were substantial pools of standing water at the base of both routes -- noticed the first one when I was belaying, second pool when I landed next to it.  My takeaway: If you go out too soon, you can break a lot more than some holds.  

Was this one of the local guides or was a rogue "guide" who pilfers business? Seems odd that a local guide would do that. 

Brian, aside from the wet rock issue (which sounds pretty obvious), what kind of guide leaves so much slack in a TR belay that his client can possibly hit anything, let alone the ground, when falling?  WTF?

b kwrote:

Was this one of the local guides or was a rogue "guide" who pilfers business? Seems odd that a local guide would do that. 

I once randomly got messaged on MP by a family to guide them, and I told them I’m not a guide and directed them to the MP page on available services. Seems like someone else might have been more piratical than me.

Brian Boydwrote:

Thought I would add a datapoint.  Went out with a guide service two saturdays ago.  It had rained on both Thursday/Friday, looks like 1/3 of an inch accumulation.  Temps were in the 40s to 50s, humidity about 40 to 80 percent on the days prior to climbing.  Was told we were good to go vis-a-vis wet rock, and I'm just a dumb tourist.  I'm skeptical of sandstone under the best of circumstances, so I'm tapping and testing stuff, generally moving like I'm on 5.11 friction carrying nitroglycerin in my chalkbag.  A well-chalked mars bar-sized jug pops off on the warm-up with only moderate pressure. Three routes later, another hold breaks off down low under minimal pressure.  Toproping, but lots of slack in the rope, and I bounce off a ledge, then groundfall into a pillar with my back, narrowly missing my spine.  Some fractured ribs and a hearty helping of blunt force trauma.  Ortho says six weeks to heal up, then however long to recover lost time -- basically, my spring season is toast.  There were substantial pools of standing water at the base of both routes -- noticed the first one when I was belaying, second pool when I landed next to it.  My takeaway: If you go out too soon, you can break a lot more than some holds.  

That is terrible.  It is not cool a guide would have you climbing on wet sandstone and it is 100% NOT acceptable that they couldn't provide a safe top rope belay!

I hope you heal up fast.

A guide service put you in the hospital? Man, we need more details. What company is this irresponsible? What were their consequences? Did they pay your hospital bill's or a least send a stuffie and flowers? I have to say your attitude is really cool considering. 

Hard to believe this was a legitimate guide service.

I’m less interested in the ‘name and shame’ exercise and more focused on highlighting the fragility of Red Rocks sandstone.  I will say that it’s been two weeks since this happened, and they haven’t bothered to check in on me.  However, they did generously only charge me for the half day, versus full day.  so, yeah, they rock ;)  And, yes, an actual guide service.

Guide service was definitely NOT Desert Rock Sports.   btw, I was in their shop the day before getting mangled, and it’s AWESOME: They have a great assortment of stuff that is hard to get elsewhere, and the consignment gear made me feel,like I was back at Wildie Exchange in Denver.

Finally, thanks for the well wishes — greatly appreciated.

Brian… sort of bogus of you to bad mouth a “guide service” and to not tell us the name. What the F? 

Brian- so sorry to read this!  It is a great reminder to all of us about several things, including wet sandstone and who we trust with our lives. Heal up fast and well!!!!

Brian Boydwrote:

I’m less interested in the ‘name and shame’ exercise and more focused on highlighting the fragility of Red Rocks sandstone.

Maybe if you were dissatisfied with the service, but in the case of injury as a result of the guide - per your description - then most definitely they should be named. As long as it's factual and honest.

As a local guide (I'm with RRCG/DRS), I would be keen to find out who/what service this incident was with. There are not that many working guides in town among the 4 permitted services, so it's a pretty small community. I hadn't heard about this event, but what you described is pretty serious and should be scrutinized in full so we can work to mitigate risk...if a specific guide or service is practicing in an unsafe manner, in my opinion, that warrants names/discussion. Also, I'd name the service, not the guide. 

Brian Boydwrote:

I’m less interested in the ‘name and shame’ exercise and more focused on highlighting the fragility of Red Rocks sandstone.  I will say that it’s been two weeks since this happened, and they haven’t bothered to check in on me.  However, they did generously only charge me for the half day, versus full day.  so, yeah, they rock ;)  And, yes, an actual guide service.

Guide service was definitely NOT Desert Rock Sports.   btw, I was in their shop the day before getting mangled, and it’s AWESOME: They have a great assortment of stuff that is hard to get elsewhere, and the consignment gear made me feel,like I was back at Wildie Exchange in Denver.

Finally, thanks for the well wishes — greatly appreciated.

Dude, other people should avoid that guide service. This isn’t a macdonalds restauraunt, its climbing we’re talking about: people can die. That guiding service is clearly a scam, no real guide worth their salt would go climb in red rocks so soon after the rains we had, or would drop a client on top rope.
I cant believe they charged you at all in exchange for a catastrophic injury!

It wasn’t us over at alpine institute either! Brian, did you hire a guide from a guide service, or a pirate?

it’s very hard to imagine a legitimately permitted guide service taking clients on sandstone directly after heavy rains. You should mention the name of the service.

Brian,

I was in Ouray and work for JHMG. I don’t see you listed as a client for us. So if it’s not Red Rock, AAI, or JHMG, we have one guide service left or it was a pirate guide.

I notice that Brian has gone remarkably quiet. 

Marc801 Cwrote:

I notice that Brian has gone remarkably quiet. 

I think the BLM issues "guest guiding" permits to companies from outside the area, but his refusal to identify the company makes it more likely a pirate guide, if a guide, at all.

FWIW, Brian pm’d me and told me the pertinent info and it appears this was a permitted service and NOT a pirate guide. I’ll let the math speak for itself. 

EMFR Iwrote:

FWIW, Brian pm’d me and told me the pertinent info and it appears this was a permitted service and NOT a pirate guide. I’ll let the math speak for itself.

So it was either Mountain Skills or NOLS? (You were an advocate for naming the company)

Has the manager of that service, or BLM been contacted about this? 

If the company doesn't offer some remuneration and change to their policies, they should be named.