Dirtbag discussion

I highly recommend the Jam Crack Podcast interview with Glen Robbins. A harrowing account of the old dirtbag era at Dyurrite/Mt Arapiles.

Robbins describes a very far out time. Many of the full time camp residents were fleeing abusive homes or situations and had mental health issues. Food was often rotten, water bad, and living conditions appaling, and hostile "good ol boy" locals who would come down to the climbers camp in gangs to beat them up for fun while the police turned a blind eye.

Sam Mwrote:

I reckon a dirtbag needs to have rejected society and societies expectations. To a point this involves living as an outlaw (though not necessarily breaking the law) and an anti-capitalist and anti-work attitude.

Working a white-collar advertising job remotely (tech jobs are often really advertising jobs) totally disqualifies you.

(These are all Australian climbers I am referring to)

It's pretty rare these days. The true characters like Lucky Chance, Crazy John, "Macca", Glen Robbins, pre-mid-life-crisis Mike Law...a dying breed. Sometimes literally.

People are so straight edge these days. I think we are often more likely now to idolise the overachieving climber who "has it all" the traditional life *and* the high performance sends. These existed in the past as well to be fair. Eg Eric and Eleanor Dark, even John Ewbank himself.

Bill Ravitch was the most committed climbing bum I ever met, although I suppose he qualified for the dirtbag moniker as well. He lived in a tent most of his adult life, never had a car, nor a real job. I don't know how he got by. I had quite a few adventures and road trips with him.  Mostly known from his early years at the Gunks, when it was quite the scene. Then ended his days at the New River Gorge, where he "died with his boots on". 

Mike Steelewrote:

Bill Ravitch was the most committed climbing bum I ever met, although I suppose he qualified for the dirtbag moniker as well. He lived in a tent most of his adult life, never had a car, nor a real job. I don't know how he got by. I had quite a few adventures and road trips with him.  Mostly known from his early years at the Gunks, when it was quite the scene. Then ended his days at the New River Gorge where he "died with his boots on". 

Not so fast….one rumor around the gunks in bill’s time was that he was related to Richard Ravitch of nyc transportation fame. He was also rumored to be a gear thief at times, I know someone who caught him red-handed with his guidebook. 

This thread is a gem.
MP is a mess, but this one has some soul.

Being able to hear stories and opinions from the giants whom shoulders we stand is amazing. I love when those legends, like John, drop something on us.

I'm lucky enough to have met a lot of america's climbing legends and I will proudly help keep their flame burning long after they are gone.
Oral and written history is important to me, and through it IMO, we honor those who broke trail before us.

I own many of Fred Beckys books. And I also heard that he worked in the printing industry...not just as an author of climbing guides. I was at Vantage once in the late 90's. I saw a dirtbag sleeping under a blue tarp. He rolled over, sat up, and it was Fred.

During my blue collar decades I'd only get two weeks off a year. We'd spend them in the valley, sleeping in backpacking tents, eating on picnic tables. When your baked beans fall on the ground because your Svea 123 stove is tippy as hell...and you eat them out of the dirt...it feels pretty dirtbag. But we all knew the hippies working SAR at the other end of Camp 4 were the real dirt bags. 

Fast forward a couple decades, we had better jobs, owned a house and drove to Jtree in our $30,000 Rav4, My dirtbag days were over. I still like tents and cooking at the picnic table. People in warm vans miss out on a lot of the shenanigans around the campfires. And those noisy diesel heaters! Why don't they just bring a warm sleeping bag?

All I know is doing dishes and making the bed disqualify one from dirt bag status, you gotta be able to eat breakfast in the same pan you (cooked?) ate dinner in and you gotta sleep on the dirt without paying the man. 

Well ok. It's a word. Meanings change. Its been gentrified!

philip bonewrote:

Well ok. It's a word. Meanings change. Its been gentrified!

The concept of a 'gentrified dirtbag' is, well.....

FrankPSwrote:

I like your description. I don't think you can be a dirtbag if you have funds and choose to be stingy. Then, you are just a miserly person that needs a shower.

A safety net is not "having funds". I think the difference is between how you pay for day-to-day expenses (hence the stolen toilet paper) and what happens if you break your leg. I think a dirt bag is someone who prioritizes climbing (or skiing or long-distance hiking or whatever) over covering day-to-day expenses easily. They need to scrimp to get by on a daily basis. Some of them will have a safety net (whether their parents' basement or easily deployable job skills or what have you); others will not. The issue is prioritizing your passion over mundane financial success. 

Stealing is just stealing. Waiting to deploy one's job skills till later in life might not be the best strategy. As far as "gentrified dirtbag" . . . oxymoronic yes?

philip bonewrote:

Stealing is just stealing. Waiting to deploy one's job skills till later in life might not be the best strategy. As far as "gentrified dirtbag" . . . oxymoronic yes?

Yes, stealing is just stealing--nothing redeeming about it. It is pretty clear that some of those in the climbing community who engaged in that practice, did it for 'the thrill/risk' rather than need---or maybe just to 'belong' . (I, personally don't consider 'scarfing' to be in the same category as stealing--abandoned goods, though I believe that many did/do it for the same reasons.)

Concerning holding off on deploying one's job skills not being a great idea, while I generally agree, at least from the 50/60s generation, many of the original Yosemite climbing bums/dirt bags/ whatever-you-want-to-call-them seem to have done pretty well following such a strategy ( though others, not so much).

Devin Pendaswrote:

A safety net is not "having funds". I think the difference is between how you pay for day-to-day expenses (hence the stolen toilet paper) and what happens if you break your leg. I think a dirt bag is someone who prioritizes climbing (or skiing or long-distance hiking or whatever) over covering day-to-day expenses easily. They need to scrimp to get by on a daily basis. Some of them will have a safety net (whether their parents' basement or easily deployable job skills or what have you); others will not. The issue is prioritizing your passion over mundane financial success. 

those folks aren't contributing enough value to Frank's wealth so they obviously have no intrinsic worth.

PWZwrote:

those folks aren't contributing enough value to Frank's wealth so they obviously have no intrinsic worth.

Did you ever get a job, PWZ? Or does Antifa give you a stipend?

Sounds like scarfing = booty harvesting

FrankPSwrote:

Did you ever get a job, PWZ? Or does Antifa give you a stipend?

Since 1993, but thanks for reiterating your overall pro-fascism outlook.

How does one collect a stipend from an idea?

A patent, perhaps? Just guessing, as I've never had a good idea in my life.  

When My dad was ANTIFA in 1944 and 45 he got paid about $60.00 a month. 

if your living in a van and sleeping in a sleeping bag instead of a down comforter you are missing the whole point of van life ;) 

It's funny how the term, "ski bum" or "climbing bum" or dirt bag has changed over time. 

https://youtu.be/8uKbIkYGsIg?si=V5MA5-6ZddGc6CYV

I do find it funny how many people are bringing morals into this, why is it so common in America for people to feel like everyone has a moral obligation to work and live their lives like everyone else? 

that guy named sebwrote:

It's funny how the term, "ski bum" or "climbing bum" or dirt bag has changed over time.

I do find it funny how many people are bringing morals into this, why is it so common in America for people to feel like everyone has a moral obligation to work and live their lives like everyone else? 

We know something about freedom? 

And I don't know about your conformity claim being factual but contributing something to society by supporting one's self is a good  start and generally looked upon in a positive light. Of course the only climbers on the dole I've ever met have a queen or a king ruling them.

we are not even close to a free country. just try going camping pretty much anywhere in the NE that The Man has not designated  an official campsite and see how quick a bunch of up tight assholes will jump all over your shit. down south they don't fck around. they lock you up as a felon. for camping...