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Chipping
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Right on Dana, I hope that the guilty party will have the courage to confess to this. |
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Fixing holds is straight up vandalism and theft. I walk out one day feeling pretty good and strong, warmed up and decided “Today”… Reach up and instead of a slick sloper my fingers fell into a big ass groove!!!???!!! I walked away in disgust and disappointment. I always thought great problems were created by GOD. The rock formed up taking millions of years to do so giving all of us climbers something special to have. People who chip deserve to die painful death! Scum |
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Sometimes people just fall in with a bad crowd, or have a need to belong. Sad really, such small minds. |
Rock Climber wrote: You know all the talk about gatekeeping in our "community"? This is what they're referring to... I started in the gym. You probably started in the gym. There's nothing wrong with that. I know this is meant to be a joke and I'm gonna come across as "not a lot of fun", but this isn't a very clever or original or funny joke... If we want to stop this behavior, welcome gym climbers into the outdoors and teach them the community ethics. |
Mark Berenblum wrote: Generalizing, gym climbers are a different breed. It doesn’t matter where a person starts out, it’s the attitude they bring to climbing. Again, in general, gym climbers are indoor people who have aspirations to be outdoor people but unfortunately their mindset remains indoors, thus creating havoc outdoors. |
Mark Berenblum wrote: This- I take the time to go climbing with new climbers all the time (heck it’s a great way to make new friends and partners and I need strong climbers around to get the ropes up for me) When I was a youngster I asked this question to Bobby Kamps and Mark Powell on a desert trip we took one time to the New York mountains in California. The both gave the same answer- “this is the way it’s done…” I have taken this to heart my entire life. Gym climbers start out as noobs and most are Hella Strong and I always caution them to “keep your gear leading in check, ok to fire sport climbing, the onsite is the sport goal” Many have taken my advice and are now quite accomplished climbers. Be welcoming, teach the sport. This is the way after all. Later all |
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It frowned upon if I dremel some edges on to this slopey v8 at the gym I can't do yet? |
Nick R wrote: That's.... a pretty shitty generalization. I feel the biggest challenge is often climbers that get on illogical high horses then have their clique back them up vs. sound decisions and standards. Just because people started in a gym vs. outside typically has no bearing on these things as it's not like gym climbers bring power tools to the gym to shave holds. |
Nick R wrote: This was not my experience in the 3+ years I worked in commercial climbing gyms in the Seattle area. And doesn't line up with the many conversations I've had with random strangers at gyms all over the western US. I really don't understand this us vs them mindset. In any large group of people some will be bad actors. An effective response... the majority confronting individual bad actors, rationally explaining how if everyone did what they did the world would be worse, and then taking away whatever reward the bad actor was seeking. At no point does this involve labeling an entire group of people or even an individual, inferior. Which is a great way to make someone stop listening to you. |
Mark Berenblum wrote: That guy's BS sticker suggestion (under the guise of the age old "lol just a joke bro" to cover his a** if people give him crap for it), along with the sentiment behind it, exemplifies the exact kind of attitude that has no place in what is traditionally a welcoming and inclusive community. I started as a gym climber, as many of us did, and was brought out by experienced outdoor climbers. Nowadays as an experienced outdoor climber myself, I make it a point to offer to show around any newbies or visitors to the area, and teaching them about climbing ethics and etiquette along the way. That's what we should be doing...education and mentorship, not creating animosity. On a related note, odd that some of the commenters here are so quick to jump to blaming gym climbers for this chipping situation, when even just the most basic Google search will illustrate that among those caught are primarily outdoor climbers. One of these guys was a pro climber! I think we should all try to be respectful of each other, especially those with whom we share an incredible passion. Stereotyping and baseless speculation is unproductive and only will lead to further infighting and unnecessary hostility. |
BCavanaugh wrote: I just bring my own hex wrench and readjust climbs as necessary. |
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"Gym Climbers" was not meant to be insulting toward anyone that climbs in a gym, or started in the gym, or uses a gym, or whatever. My goal was always to keep a lighthearted jab at the fact our community is growing and its likely you've seen some climbers who were behaving poorly. You haven't the energy or time to fix the problem so you leave or just laugh at being that gumby once. Over the course of the last few years the bad ethics and dangerous behavior has increased... (I have no stats, just my *evidently bias* personal observations) I am all for educating and growing the community, I would not be where I am if not for those that taught me outside ethics (who I met in a gym). I also love taking out new folks into outdoor spaces. Its how I would assume everyone starts now... no one should be excluded from the amazing experiences we all love in the outdoors ... BUT this is MP. the land of 'Yer gunna die' and jokes about anything ... This was my attempt at a joke, to make fun of the fact that we have a growing problem, that might not have a simple solution. So I poke fun at it by this oversimplification... in a Silly sticker. Gatekeeping to save the crags and spaces you love so others in the future can use them shouldn't be so vilified. I think both sides of the spectrum are still altruistic, whether you want to gatekeep or take large groups to Rumney on a weekend and set up TR's in the meadow for 8 hours while screaming up to your GF who's never cleaned an anchor how to get herself down ... we all love climbing and want to keep pursuing the joy we get from it. In NE we see public places getting shut down because climbers started to abuse places. Whether it is purposeful or ignorant, damage can be done. We can't have it both ways ... this is an issue. One that I attempted to make a joke about, which has gotten a lot of mixed reactions. |
Regina Madden wrote: Source? |
Rock Climber wrote: You accidentally wrote “both” instead of “neither”. |
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It's not like this site is called Gymproject, I vote if anyone mentions the gym in a positive light again they get permanently banned from the site. |
Max Taylor wrote: You know this is highly frowned upon in the international gym community right? You must be a rock climber. |
Andy Shoemaker wrote: A gym climber can become a climber but it takes alot of time outdoors understanding how it all works and even then most people never really get it. |
Nick R wrote: It takes lots of time yet the gyms literally bring them out in big groups without permits frequently go figure . Illegal climbing first time out is never good. |
Nick R wrote: I guess. I think almost everyone "really get(s) it". Understanding how it all works can be done in one outing with some new friends who are acquainted with climbing norms and have some common sense. Trouble is it only takes one person to ruin a boulder for everyone. What makes someone do something they don't see anyone else doing? This person/people must know that making a problem easier doesn't make them a better climber. Even if they don't care that they're ruining it for everyone else. Is money on the line? Fame? Glory? What the heck makes people do irrationally selfish things? |
Andy Shoemaker wrote: I also believe most peple "get it" I was never really taught "the way" but also never have i thought about bringing/altering a climb down to my level. My intuition just tells me thats not cool. People who do these things i feel do it in many aspects of their lives..
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