"I can't use a grigri" is a massive red flag?

I don't know how to use a Revo; that could be a red flag to someone who uses that device all the time. If a person is proficient with an tube style device and an ABD of any kind that's good enough for me. It probably means they found a device they like and just never bothered to buy a gri gri because the didn't need it 

It's actually possible to appreciate both devices for their unique advantages. Being dogmatic about one or the other really only reflects a narrow mind, probably due to lack of experience with either device.

Alan Rubinwrote:

Just back on this thread after a gym session. Belaying with my ATC, I only dropped 1/2 of those I was climbing with. Most survived though, so a good day. No worries.

Can confirm. Al has never dropped me

wivanoffwrote:

Can confirm. Al has never dropped me

And what about the other half?   

I’m on the side of ATC users, but am quickly learning all things gym climbing and sport climbing with a GriGri.

Will use both and hopefully maintain Al’s stats.   

"I prefer tube because fast and light"

Usually means

"I climb 5.7 and rarely catch falls" 

In my neck of the woods at least

I heard of you don't have an iPhone you must be stupid and poor.

Yellow flag.

I like the self awareness and communication, but come on now-it’s not hard to use a grigri correctly. I’d have more questions/be keeping an eye on them, and if they were an otherwise good partner I’d probably just spend 20 minutes to teach them.

I see a lot of “use a Munter/sticht plate/hip belay whatever, just don’t drop me” here which like seriously? My standards are wayyyyy higher than “just don’t drop me”.

Li Huwrote:

And what about the other half?   

The other half? The only time I was ever dropped was when I was being lowered with a GriGri. But, it wasn't Al.

The 'I use tubes because they are fast and light' suggestion was referring to the alpine context, where leaders shouldn't be fallling too often anyway ---tends to slow things down!!!!

But, I do catch plenty of lead falls--inside and out, with an ATC, including much heavier leaders on thin ropes. Don't consider it to be fun, but still do it.

A bit earlier in this thread, Artem stated that, if one knows how, there is no need to hold a gri-gri to feed out rope. While, from my experience, at least ( yes, I have used those infernal devices to belay leaders), while it is possible to do this slowly, I would be very interested to see how to feed out rope quickly this way,  without the machine locking up ( which is precisely what it iss  designed to do in such circumstances unless the locking mechanism is disengaged). 

Alan Rubinwrote:

The 'I use tubes because they are fast and light' suggestion was referring to the alpine context, where leaders shouldn't be fallling too often anyway ---tends to slow things down!!!!

But, I do catch plenty of lead falls--inside and out, with an ATC, including much heavier leaders on thin ropes. Don't consider it to be fun, but still do it.

A bit earlier in this thread, Artem stated that, if one knows how, there is no need to hold a gri-gri to feed out rope. While, from my experience, at least ( yes, I have used those infernal devices to belay leaders), while it is possible to do this slowly, I would be very interested to see how to feed out rope quickly this way,  without the machine locking up ( which is precisely what it iss  designed to do in such circumstances unless the locking mechanism is disengaged). 

Its just like feeding an atc but involves stepping forward to keep it from locking. Petzl videos explain it. I do it this way 95% of the time, I notice not many folks do.

Connor Dobsonwrote:

"I prefer tube because fast and light"

Usually means

"I climb 5.7 and rarely catch falls" 

In my neck of the woods at least

Hahaha, maybe true.

Gym climbing is growing, we’ll just need to adapt to gym/sport climbing methods.

GriGri or other anssisted braking devices are required by many gyms for what I was told “insurance purposes”. Makes sense.

But for multi-pitch and anything requiring two rope rappels, ATC is difficult to beat. Simplicity is sometimes better.

Each has its place.

I have not seen a left handed gri gri- pretty difficult for a lefty to use a standard gg

Wow, Artem, that seemed like I was reading someone's PhD thesis!!!! Maybe doing it is less complicated than it reads, but definitely is a 'bit' more complex then simply feeding a rope in and out of an ATC. Sure, I understand that Grigri ( or similar device) makes a lot of sense for the big wall applications that you mentioned, rescue, route development but, for me, I still prefer the ease and simplicity of an ATC for the type of climbing that I usually do these days.

Charlie Kissickwrote:

I recently used a revo for the first time and liked it a lot. More than a gri gri. Why aren’t they more common?

Because they don’t capture progress. Amazing for feeding rope. Amazing for safety. The absolute worst if your partner will be falling and working a route. Well, almost the worst. You could have an ATC, which replaces mechanical safety backup with a net knit from ego and the ether. 

Jkug Kugwrote:

I have not seen a left handed gri gri- pretty difficult for a lefty to use a standard gg

Climbing is an ambidextrous type of activity so really that is a bad excuse. I've definitely never heard that same excuse about a specific climb.

Connor that  must be a cali thing. around here it means you lead 5+ ice on double ropes and when you solo you use a 6mm rap line.. 

J mo---It would be a good idea if you would learn to practice what you preach.

Over on Scott McNamara's thread on the wilderness bolting issue, you post ( correctly) that there is too much toxicity and division in the world and that climbers should unite and work together. Then, almost simultaneously, you come over to this thread and make a very 'toxic and divisive' statement. Really can't have it both ways.

Once again, no belay device is perfect, all have pluses and minuses---some better for certain usages than others, some people prefer one type over the other. No "mechanical safety backup" is, actually, totally safe--especially since the human 'operators' are themselves not always error free. There have been failures of or with such devices; there, unfortunately but undoubtedly, will be others.

Grigri, or whatever you use, might be best for you in the types of climbing that you prefer. No need to insult others who prefer other aspects of the sport and/or find that other devices best meet their needs.

Jkug Kugwrote:

I have not seen a left handed gri gri- pretty difficult for a lefty to use a standard gg

It's not brain surgery, just use your right hand

PWZwrote:

It's not brain surgery, just use your right hand

If you don’t mind getting dropped by a typical lefty forced to use their right hand by you.

Try switching to lefty with your computer mouse then play a video game requiring fast reaction times with the mouse and record what your right hand is doing.

It’s better for a typical lefty to use a left handed GriGri method. It’s relatively easy to learn.

At this point I’ve belayed 30 climbs since my first post in this thread and I am getting reasonably proficient making a long enough loop when I can see my climber approaching a clip and pressing my thumb on the mechanism to keep it from locking when feeding rope. I put the thumb along the edge so it would naturally slip off if something happens.

That said, I’m about 85% ambidextrous. This is cause as a youth I was forced to do everything right handed until I had broken my wrist when I was 12. The doctor told me it would take many months to heal and require two surgeries, and was offered therapy to learn to use my left hand.

Took me an hour to learn to write lefty, and everything else took nearly no efforts. Shot a bow with a cast on my right wrist and hit the bullseye the first time in my life. Won my cohort. Left eye dominant as well.

I could switch to righty, but do NOT force other lefty people to switch righty.

Also, note to others, climbing is not an ambidextrous sport. Your beta is dependent upon your dominant side.

Marc

Li Huwrote: I am getting reasonably proficient making a long enough loop when I can see my climber approaching a clip and pressing my thumb on the mechanism to keep it from locking when feeding rope.

My understanding of this is that collecting a large loop of rope on the brake side is not necessary for assisting with paying out slack. When this is done the brake strand is unweighted and a slow leader fall may cause the Grigri to not lock up at all until the entirety of the loop is fed though.

Unless I'm mistaken and this is part of how you belay on a Grigri as a lefty