Rocky Talkies Etiquette

What about gym use? There are always a handful of people that feel the need to shout "ready to lower!", "lowering!". 

Maybe they could use rocky talkies with a headset to relieve the strain on my ears.

Jasonwrote:

I'm skeptical of the Bluetooth range but it might actually be nice for skiing so you could tell your partner you fell in a tree well or whatever

With you on this. BT has terrible range, even v. 5.1. It says max range 800 meters. In real terms I bet it's a lot less. On the other hand, I've spoken to my friend on the summit of Mt. Whitney while I was down by the E-ledges, several miles away, using a normal Motorola walkie.

I rarely use the radios, but when I do, I have earpieces and mics for my walkies, so nobody else needs to be bothered. 

Jasonwrote:

I'm skeptical of the Bluetooth range but it might actually be nice for skiing so you could tell your partner you fell in a tree well or whatever

Yeah, agree. BT wasn't designed for long distance usage. It's designed to create very local connections between devices.

On the other hand, I've used a cheap Motorola walkie set to chat with my friend on the summit of Mt. Whitney and make dinner plans while I was a few miles away, but line of sight. 

Andrew Ricewrote:

With you on this. BT has terrible range, even v. 5.1. It says max range 800 meters. In real terms I bet it's a lot less. On the other hand, I've spoken to my friend on the summit of Mt. Whitney while I was down by the E-ledges, several miles away, using a normal Motorola walkie.

I rarely use the radios, but when I do, I have earpieces and mics for my walkies, so nobody else needs to be bothered. 

I suspect that the motorcycle radio is a regular walkie-talkie. It uses BT to connect your phone, MP3 and GPS to the main unit and communicates between units via radio.

BT5.x absolutely does not go to 800 meters.... not even feet.

Alex Fletcherwrote:

I was climbing in Red Rock one day. Algea on Parade, nearby to Black Magic and Lotta Balls.

There was a team with radios on Black Magic carrying on a full conversation with the volume on max.

I assure you it was louder than the shouted commands of all the other teams. The echo in that area can be intense.

Thankfully, they turned it down after they got yelled at to knock it off.

Radio etiquette should firstly include short, concise messages so as to not block other traffic on the channel.

The volume control should be obvious, but apparently it’s not to everyone. Their loud conversation was blocking the communication traffic of other teams not even using radios.

part of basic radio planning on public use frequencies should always include a bump plan.  e.g. we plan on using channel A with privacy code Y.  you get there and 3 other parties are on same channel.  "Hey bro channel bump!"   - bro clicks radio to channel C  rinse and repeat as needed 

apogeewrote:

Yes, this makes some pretty good sense. Assuming AirPods will stay in yer ear after a 20’ whip, or thrutching through some mungy pitch.

I drive 80mph on my moto with my ear buds in. I think a whip won't matter

B Ywrote:

I see more and more people climbing with them on their harness at the gym, sometimes using them there. At first I was like "ah maybe they wanna see how to conveniently rack it and have easy access to it before they take it outside" But then it happened again and again. and no they are not hearing impaired 

Personally, I bought a cheap $30 set of amazon walkies, use them only if communication is absolute trash higher up on multipitch and they hold up so well. Radtel is the name of the brand 

Never saw someone using talkies in the climbing gym.  And I am there 3 days a week.

Ryan Enright wrote:

I have little experience with using talkies but I’ve seen a plethora of experts in the wilderness using them in these advanced and critical situations:

-To let your partner know when you placed a cool piece of gear

-To let your partner know of a fixed piece of gear on route

-When you are run out

-When you are scared

-When there’s a nice view 

-When you see mountain goats in the distance

-When you think you passed the anchor ledge

-When you’re tired

-When you want to know how much rope is left

 I believe in my heart there’s a correct and justified use of these tools, but the prevalence and misuse of them is insane. If you’re using them for more communication than standard indirect/ off belay/ on belay/ climbing, communications then you are leaning too heavily on a tool and do not have your systems or understanding of multipitch climbing dialed enough to be out there safely. Just my two cents…

I really have no idea what you mean. Why can’t they be both a useful tool and a convenient way to communicate? It’s 100% better if the party near me is using radios to communicate that one of them is off route than trying to yell at each other. It doesn’t degrade the safety in any way if partners have discussions over radios.

Some of us climb for fun; pointing out the cool mountain goats can be part of that. 

How many rope tugs is "I see mountain goats in the distance"?

Threadsurrection

Dan Nguyenwrote:

"...The point is: Let's assume people are using them. How should people be using them to keep the outdoor experience pleasant for everyone around?"

Here are a few thoughts on using radios in climbing scenarios:

a) Radios should be used to enhance communication — not replace fundamental climbing commands and systems. It's important to build reliable, non-radio communication skills first.

b) More listening, less talking. Keep transmissions brief and to the point. This helps your climbing partner, minimizes unnecessary chatter on the shared channel, and is respectful to others who may be nearby and not interested in hearing your running commentary.

c) Focus on fixing the basic issues that often lead to yelling at the crag, and develop the awareness to reduce the need for unnecessary communication — radio or otherwise. For example, yelling “How much rope is left?” is common, but learning to build systems or habits that track rope use more effectively can minimize the need for mid-pitch radio checks.

d) Be aware of local emergency-designated FRS/GMRS channels and avoid using them for casual communication. This is better known in the backcountry skiing world, but it’s worth carrying that awareness into climbing contexts too.

Personal Opinion:

I use radios extensively in the backcountry skiing world, so I definitely recognize their value. That said, I personally try to avoid using them in rock climbing whenever possible. While radios can be a great tool for improving communication, I really appreciate the simplicity and flow of moving through rock terrain with a partner using minimal verbal exchange.

I also believe that developing this kind of non-verbal communication is an important part of becoming a well-rounded rock climber — and in some cases, early reliance on radios may be bypassing that skill development altogether.

Benoit Cerrinawrote:

Never saw someone using talkies in the climbing gym.  And I am there 3 days a week.

3 days a week??! My medial tendinitis flared up just reading that!

Dan Nguyenwrote:

3 days a week??! My medial tendinitis flared up just reading that!

+ week end outdoor if possible.  

The tendonitis point is well taken though ramping up climbing frequency has to be done carefully as muscle build up faster than tendons and ligaments.  I didn't start at 3 days a week.  There is also how long your sessions are and whether you work on endurance, technic or strength.

Anyway I wish your elbow to get better

Michael Abendwrote:

Have you ever been to Red Rock?

That one in Colorado right?   

Smith Martin Paulwrote:

That one in Colorado right?   

Hard to hear your partner over the bands.

The only thing more annoying than radios are falling radios.

rgoldwrote:

I'm guessing a lot of people use the devices out of the box with the default channel and no privacy codes, so there might be an over-concentration on that channel.

In my experience there is only an over-concentration on channel 69.

Not an inter-party ettiquite issue, but imo both partners need to understand that by default, a response to a transmission is not required.

Leader should not be expected to stop climbing to grab their radio and say "ok thanks" in response to "that's halfway" or similar. 

Follower should not be expected to transmit "You're off belay" or "climbing" if they have other tasks to do that are blocking the team from making progress.

It wastes a lot of time and believe it or not, I've caught a lead fall becasue someone let go of a hold to grab their radio to acknowledge some FYI routefinding info that I had told them.

I just insist they use their "handles" so we know who is who on the channel.

"Love Handles to Sweet Lips, over?

"Copy that Love Handles, what you need, over?"

"Mo' sugar (our code for tension!) Sweet Lips, over?"

Like that.

Devan Beewrote:

How many rope tugs is "I see mountain goats in the distance"?

.. / ... . . / -- --- ..- -. - .- .. -. / --. --- .- - ... / .. -. / - .... . / -.. .. ... - .- -. -.-. .

This is why I will only climb with other people who wear Starlink mini antennas on their helmets like me. Satellites or bust!