New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #26

phylp phylpwrote:

We had the entire of Texas Canyon to ourselves yesterday. Good day out…

You’re local to LA? Would definitely be cool to climb together sometime.

Li Huwrote:

You’re local to LA? Would definitely be cool to climb together sometime.

Thank you. Send me a pm. I climb a lot more on the road than locally but we should compare notes. 

The journey.  

There are two local places where a Carl’s Jr. is adjacent to an In-N-Out Burger. I would not want to be the owner of the Carl’s Jr..  The In-N-Out has a line to the end of the parking lot and a block down the street. The Carls junior has one lonely car driving through and it’s a sad scene. I don’t know maybe it’s an employee driving through so the place doesn’t look so pitiful. I just wonder how they don’t look out their window and figure out that they are doing something wrong.  I can say that I had no choice but order from Carl’s Jr. today and the hostility from the cashier was pretty remarkable. 

That was after I had a visit with Rolf.  Her real name is CK but what she does is so frequently painful that I nicknamed her Rolf and she doesn’t seem to mind.  I have hurt my left knee and the pain from that has migrated to my low back and now to my right knee. I really don’t think I have torn anything but I’m going on six weeks in pretty constant pain.  

I called Kaiser and have had such sage advice as to ice it and then put heat on it and when that didn’t solve the problem my doc said he’d be happy to shoot both knees with cortisone.  I really don’t want that either.

Apparently I’m going to have to beg for physical therapy (because they are not just going to offer it). What I am really thinking is that I am misusing my body in someway that shows up with difficult climbing.  Maybe I haven’t done the right strengthening exercises or maybe I am favoring some muscle group?  Or not stretching enough.  The thing is I’m pretty sure that’s what physical therapy is all about. What’s the point of shots of Cortisone if I don’t learn how I’ve created this problem?  I’m willing to do the work once I know what it is.

Meanwhile I always love seeing Rolf. It’s not pleasant. She’s usually not happy till she’s made me cry. But I know she has the experience to take care of me.

Sorry you're having trouble with your knee, Lori. There are PTs that will take you without a doctor's order. Insurance won't cover it, but it could be worth it, if you can afford it.

Here's the recently-turned-80 rgold climbing a 5.9 in excellent form, today. I've been told the climb is a soft 5.9, but can't confirm, as I didn't try it. Fun day. Thanks Rich!

Lori Milaswrote:

The journey.  

I really don’t think I have torn anything but I’m going on six weeks in pretty constant pain.  

What I am really thinking is that I am misusing my body in someway that shows up with difficult climbing.  Maybe I haven’t done the right strengthening exercises or maybe I am favoring some muscle group?  Or not stretching enough.  The thing is I’m pretty sure that’s what physical therapy is all about. What’s the point of shots of Cortisone if I don’t learn how I’ve created this problem?  I’m willing to do the work once I know what it is.

Climbing is harder on our bodies as we age.

What I’ve noticed is I need about double the time to heal than when I was even in my 30s.

After a 2 hour gym climbing session at Hangar 18, where the setting is perfect for a decent workout, is that two days off helps. I feel invigorated after the session, the day after nothing, two days later a bit of soreness and my joints are “tight”, but no pain. The third day, it’s usually healed.

I’m working v5 and easily flash and up and down climb v3 and some v4. I’ll spend 90% of my time with v3/4. Working 5.12 and spend 90% of my time 5.10-5.11.

Outdoors, I’ve only once come close to an indoor v2 “power level move” on “Disco Lemonade”. Then that was it for me. Didn’t feel worked at all, just “felt” that was it, and, sure enough, two days later felt a little soreness. Third day, was back at it in the gym.

In my youth, I’d have felt the same way as the third day now as quickly as the same afternoon. Healed up the next day. In my 20s, next day. 30s, 2nd day. Now, 3rd day. I can imagine in another decade or so needing 4 days or more?

What you’re possibly experiencing, Lori, may be simply overuse injuries?  Takes time for your body to even register that it’s tired.

This picture showed up on my Facebook feed this morning and I don’t know if it’s OK to share the whole thing but this is candy to me.  My alter ego would be climbing this today. This is what’s on my mind when I think of slab and it motivates me to keep trying.

Aside from that my happy place lately is Instagram and I just have to check in occasionally to see what’s new. It’s a wonderful place to create only what lifts you up and brings you joy. So I discovered Nonna and I wish I had an Italian grandmother like her. I didn’t know you could save your favorite posts, but that’s now dangerous thing because I’m saving really great stuff but it’s piling up. This is Nonna’s baked tomato recipe and now I’m going to have to shop our farmers market today and see if we have any suitable tomatoes like that.  

she keeps a gallon of olive oil on her counter, which is pretty standard for us too, however, I have noticed that Tony does not naturally gravitate to vegetables. I woke up this morning actually dreaming of green beans and yellow squash which tells me it’s time to get cooking.

What’s going on in your kitchen? 

dragonswrote:

Here's the recently-turned-80 rgold climbing a 5.9 in excellent form, today. I've been told the climb is a soft 5.9, but can't confirm, as I didn't try it. Fun day. Thanks Rich!

Cool! Love watching him climb! Takes his time looking for the sweet spots on the holds.

Nice post!

Li Huwrote:

Climbing is harder on our bodies as we age.

What I’ve noticed is I need about double the time to heal than when I was even in my 30s.

After a 2 hour gym climbing session at Hangar 18, where the setting is perfect for a decent workout, is that two days off helps. I feel invigorated after the session, the day after nothing, two days later a bit of soreness and my joints are “tight”, but no pain. The third day, it’s usually healed.

I’m working v5 and easily flash and up and down climb v3 and some v4. I’ll spend 90% of my time with v3/4. Working 5.12 and spend 90% of my time 5.10-5.11.

Outdoors, I’ve only once come close to an indoor v2 “power level move” on “Disco Lemonade”. Then that was it for me. Didn’t feel worked at all, just “felt” that was it, and, sure enough, two days later felt a little soreness. Third day, was back at it in the gym.

In my youth, I’d have felt the same way as the third day now as quickly as the same afternoon. Healed up the next day. In my 20s, next day. 30s, 2nd day. Now, 3rd day. I can imagine in another decade or so needing 4 days or more?

What you’re possibly experiencing, Lori, may be simply overuse injuries?  Takes time for your body to even register that it’s tired.

Thanks for that Li Hu.  

I have also known that two days is the minimum I need to just basically recover all around and three is better.

But I’m looking at this from a different angle right now. If Erika is around, maybe she can also comment?  Some years ago I spent the weekend laying my sandstone patio and woke up Monday morning in pain and I couldn’t stand up or turn my neck. I made it to the chiropractors office at a 90° angle and his diagnosis was “weak abdominals“. What? I saw no connection but I learned that if I’m going to strain my lower back I better do my abdominal crunches etc..

Thinking about it now… With gym Climbing I noticed I was getting a Dowager’s hump because that climbing is so vertical and climbers tend to hunch forward. I developed an impressive set of lats, my back built up, but my opposing pec muscles were (and are) weak.

Here in Josh i’m using my quads and they’re strong, but my hamstrings are underused. I use my triceps, but really very little on biceps. I have chronically sore big toes from all that slab climbing, but haven’t worked my feet in the other direction. So I think that overtime, a climber’s body gets very unbalanced. 

I’ve been going to the gym a couple times a week with Tony but my instinct is to use that time to strengthen the lesser used areas of my body. I could use a lot more pull  strength etc. but probably the most beneficial things I could do right now to balance out all those unused muscle groups. Now that I have said that out loud, I am kind of suspecting that your average PT or sport doctor may not identify the specific imbalances that a climber has. I’m looking for some help here.

I think what’s going on for me currently is these routes I’ve been working on lately require some high stepping. My knees handle it just fine but about six hours after I’m home yowie!

Lori… sorry about your knee. As someone who messed up a knee or three and had them fixed. Find a good knee doctor, if all they wish to do is give you shots, keep looking. If you have a tear in your meniscus it will not repair itself and most likely will destroy itself at the most inopportune moment. It’s a very simple surgery and the big challenge is staying off the knee after to give it time to heal up. I hope my internet diagnosis is wrong but I don’t think so- when your knee isn’t working correctly all the other muscles try hard to take up the slack.
Best of luck to you. 

Guy Keeseewrote:

 If you have a tear in your meniscus it will not repair itself 

According to my knee surgeon (I've had both done), some areas are vascularized and some are avascular.  The section with blood supply can indeed heal.  A number of controlled trials and meta-analyses do not show clear benefit for function from partial meniscectomy compared to exercise therapy.  I did not have my surgeries until I got to the point where the knee was non-functional.  I'm a big fan of surgery when needed but PT will address underlying muscle group issues which will need to be dealt with anyway or the knee problems could easily reappear.

Lori Milaswrote:

I’ve been going to the gym a couple times a week with Tony but my instinct is to use that time to strengthen the lesser used areas of my body. I could use a lot more pull  strength etc. but probably the most beneficial things I could do right now to balance out all those unused muscle groups. Now that I have said that out loud, I am kind of suspecting that your average PT or sport doctor may not identify the specific imbalances that a climber has. I’m looking for some help here.

I was skeptical myself of this, especially living in a rural area with few practitioners. I'll say that if they dont push, pull , and dig in to find where the imbalances are then you just need a new PT. Many PTs out there are destined to never diagnose anything on their own for their entire career (while relying on doctors orders), they usually end up with an office full of retirees who can't walk a mile. I've met massage therapists, yogis and personal trainers who are also top notch at diagnosing imbalance, frequently better than your average PT. 

Lori - I can chime in more later (busy) but a good PT should be able to identify imbalances for any athlete/individual and give you a good program.

Standard of care for meniscus injury has really changed - unless the tear is catching and locking the joint, it’s best to leave it as removing any part of the meniscus greatly increases risk for OA and I think it’s something like 8x higher probability of a total knee replacement. I have a large medial meniscus tear with a flap and superior displacement in the joint and a lateral tear also. Definitely not doing surgery - bad cartilage is better than no cartilage. Not sure the ortho surgeons have all gotten the memo yet (despite reams of solid research)…. The good ones seem to be doing fewer of those procedures.

I’ll try to respond more specifically to you later. 

ErikaNWwrote:

Lori - I can chime in more later (busy) but a good PT should be able to identify imbalances for any athlete/individual and give you a good program.

Standard of care for meniscus injury has really changed - unless the tear is catching and locking the joint, it’s best to leave it as removing any part of the meniscus greatly increases risk for OA and I think it’s something like 8x higher probability of a total knee replacement. I have a large medial meniscus tear with a flap and superior displacement in the joint and a lateral tear also. Definitely not doing surgery - bad cartilage is better than no cartilage. Not sure the ortho surgeons have all gotten the memo yet (despite reams of solid research)…. The good ones seem to be doing fewer of those procedures.

I’ll try to respond more specifically to you later. 

Thanks Erika (and everyone).  I have an appointment with Kaiser on Wednesday at their Orthopedic center so hopefully they’ll figure it out.  I really don’t think it’s serious—but it feels like it could become serious.  Most of the day I’m fine now but if I have to step off a curb or squat it’s painful.  

It's unbelievably easy to become unbalanced with repetitive movement. I personally had my patella shift from doing squat movements over time. Took awhile to get it normal.

dragonswrote:

Here's the recently-turned-80 rgold climbing a 5.9 in excellent form, today. I've been told the climb is a soft 5.9, but can't confirm, as I didn't try it. Fun day. Thanks Rich!

Wow excellent!

I am fleeing the Arctic to spend Xmas in 29 Palms. It’s going to feel like trippy interplanetary travel, I think. Anybody know of a good place to rent bikes (fat, mountain, e?) in the area? Hoping to maximize my vitamin D intake : o )

another week of outdoor winter construction. framed up a roof and sheathed it. also sheathed walls etc sheet goods suck. really hard on the shoulders. framing in winter sucks. it just wears you down every day.  fri night sauna I had to use a real ax to chop through the ice. ice was strong enough to stand on while swinging the ax. got the sauna up to 189f

Got up into smuggs today. too much snow and not enough ice...  I literally swam up to terrortory.  thigh deep for most of it. after i suited up it was chest deep for 30ft to get to the ice..  got a few nice steep moves in

but the top out was crap.

  I made a few more moves and it did not sound right so I downclimbed a bit and threaded off.

this place is pretty rad.

on the way back to the top of the notch I broke the cable on my ancient army surplus Ramur bindings. 

this is the third pair to suffer this fate.  they were dirt cheap. this last pair somewhat pricy at $30.00 but the previous pairs were$14.99 for a two pack. skied down to the Jeffs trailhead by just balancing on the ski.   As luck would have it this trail was broken for me.Good thing as used a lot of gas breaking in the first trail and surprising amount of leg strength was squandered skiing with a non existent binding..

P1 was in great shape again

the P2 pillar was way too interesting. a literal fck ton of water running just beneath the surface of the ice.

www.facebook.com/1739093256/videos/pcb.10210680111075797/855638769691139 so I bailed again..   I took a cool video of it but can't seem to get it to post... 

Skied  the mile back to the truck just standing on my broken binding.  only had to yell at one couple to get out of my way.. "BROKEN BINDING , CANT STEER, CANT STOP!" fairly exhausting day with all the deep snow. 

Dam Nick! Sounds rad

Colden Darkwrote:

I am fleeing the Arctic to spend Xmas in 29 Palms. It’s going to feel like trippy interplanetary travel, I think. Anybody know of a good place to rent bikes (fat, mountain, e?) in the area? Hoping to maximize my vitamin D intake : o )

I know that house.  Is that where you are staying?