Who here has chopped their own route? (Or does it belong to "the community" now?)

During covid I helped develop a wall right in Portland by the airport at an urban crag stained by homeless camping and illegal dumping, but gifted with generally steep and solid basalt. Appetizing, I know. I was constantly leading a 5.8 crack to get access to the anchors for a couple 11 sport climbs I was bolting. In the middle of developing those routes I decided to bolt a chunk of 5.10ish solid rock that angled diagonally parallel to that 5.8 crack, thinking it would provide another way to get to the 11s to work on them, as well as provide another moderate lead on a wall with few moderates. That and it was covid, I was bored, the crag was beyond obscure, the rock itself had cool atypical slab features, it looked challenging to bolt since each bolt would require a directional bolt, etc.

Unfortunately, the result to me is that while I did technically create a 5.10 sport route, the bolting stances ultimately feel contrived due to making sure the bolts in no way impacted the 5.8 crack. You've seen this movie before, it's a questionable squeeze job, with the need to clip the bolt forcing you into awkward stances just to return to easier ground between clips. As time has passed, I hate even seeing the route. I consider it a mistake. An embarassment. Like an ex you'd just rather not be reminded of.

But... because it's bolted, people have actually been leading the route, some even apparently liking it. So, do I have every right to chop my own bolts, even if the route has been up a couple years and gotten a bunch of leads? Is it "my route" to do what I want with? Especially if I think it reflects poorly on me? Or was it never my route to begin with, just potential energy I unlocked and gave to the community and now have no right to take away? My mind is open, I'm just curious what others think. It does have 2 stars so it's not like it's a consensus bomb, and some of the comments are interesting. 

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/121108712/ripple

Yes you have the right to chop the route. So does everyone else, for that matter. Doesn't mean you should, though.

To paraphrase Gandalf, perhaps knowing when not to chop your route is as or more important?

Hey Bryan,

you know I have a personal investment in this wall.  I've always thought this bolt line was really aesthetically unpleasing . . . but it wasn't my place to say anything about it.  

If we're talking about it now, I'd be happy to assist you in pulling and filling the bolts--maybe not chop-chop it.  There are so many other routes on the wall now, I don't think this one will be missed too much (just my opinion).  

I know of a developer in Ontario that chopped his own route. Iirc it was a 5.6 with a bunch of ledge fall potential and is probably better chopped. 

I have developed some boulders that I have bombed, maybe that's the same thing? 

These things are all case-by-case. In this case, I think it would be OK to remove your bolts.

The nuance I see here is that you don't own the rock, but you do still arguably have claim to the bolts. If you places those bolts and now decide you want to remove them, that seems OK as long as you do a good job of the removal and patching.

If sometime later decided to re-bolt the route, that's up to them. Again, you don't own the rock, just the bolts, so once the bolts are gone you have no remaining claim to the route.

Another example: Bob Siegrist chopped a multi pitch sport route he bolted in Estes, after there was a serious rockfall accident. Decided it was too chossy a route for a popular crag, with climbers knocking rocks  above a busy base area. Didn't want to have/feel responsibility for any further accidents, so he removed the bolts. Seems fair and reasonable. 

bryanswrote:

During covid I helped develop a wall right in Portland by the airport at an urban crag stained by homeless camping and illegal dumping, but gifted with generally steep and solid basalt. Appetizing, I know. I was constantly leading a 5.8 crack to get access to the anchors for a couple 11 sport climbs I was bolting. In the middle of developing those routes I decided to bolt a chunk of 5.10ish solid rock that angled diagonally parallel to that 5.8 crack, thinking it would provide another way to get to the 11s to work on them, as well as provide another moderate lead on a wall with few moderates. That and it was covid, I was bored, the crag was beyond obscure, the rock itself had cool atypical slab features, it looked challenging to bolt since each bolt would require a directional bolt, etc.

Unfortunately, the result to me is that while I did technically create a 5.10 sport route, the bolting stances ultimately feel contrived due to making sure the bolts in no way impacted the 5.8 crack. You've seen this movie before, it's a questionable squeeze job, with the need to clip the bolt forcing you into awkward stances just to return to easier ground between clips. As time has passed, I hate even seeing the route. I consider it a mistake. An embarassment. Like an ex you'd just rather not be reminded of.

But... because it's bolted, people have actually been leading the route, some even apparently liking it. So, do I have every right to chop my own bolts, even if the route has been up a couple years and gotten a bunch of leads? Is it "my route" to do what I want with? Especially if I think it reflects poorly on me? Or was it never my route to begin with, just potential energy I unlocked and gave to the community and now have no right to take away? My mind is open, I'm just curious what others think. It does have 2 stars so it's not like it's a consensus bomb, and some of the comments are interesting. 

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/121108712/ripple

Sound like it’s not worth the effort to redeem yourself. Personally this would haunt me until my dying breaths, but you do you.

Just make sure the people know this is a poorly bolted route and why so they don’t get the wrong idea. Perhaps a laminated sign at the base.

remove the hangers for a season, see if that makes you feel better!

The only ethical solution is to bolt the 5.8 crack as well.

I chopped my own route. There was a block that I couldn't get to budge with much prying. It looked bad, but it sounded fine when hit with a hammer, and I couldn't get it to even wiggle. It came down two years later, from the freeze thaw cycle I guess? 

Unfortunately, above that block were many more blocks that this one was holding up. There was legitimately no way to make the route safe-- I could spend ten hours cleaning up that section and move the route over at the fun crux that fell off, but it would have been a pretty contrived and bad route at that point. Unfortunately the crux that fell off was the highlight of the route. 

I asked Jim Thornburg (most prevalent route developer and maintainer in the SF Bay Area) what I should do, and he said to chop it. So I chopped it. 

Was one of the better routes at that piece of shit crag, was a pretty fun lead while it lasted. Probably one of the shorter lived sport routes is NorCal history. =p 

Honestly, I don't see that many routes I reckon ought to be chopped. A far more frequent occurrence is some small time developer putting up a couple routes at some urban gumby crag that are totally out of character with all the other routes and have a strangely high first bolt or poor bolting with serious ground or ledge fall potential. 

Like seriously, what's with that 5.8 at the Lake Tahoe Castle Rock where you climb up to a great ledge, and then have to do one of the crux moves of the route off that ledge before you clip the first bolt? Just shitty bolting. Or the 5.7 at the same crag way off to the left where you can hit the ramp at multiple points because they spaced their bolts oddly? Doesn't necessarily make the most sense to retrobolt, they'd be comically close at the point-- it should have just been bolted totally differently from the beginning. 

That crag is an interesting example in particular, because it's by far the most over-bolted crag I've ever been to. I cleaned three draws from one stance there once. It's a near a somewhat large town and is a training ground for newer climbers so I'm not complaining about that, but it makes it even more jarring when developers put up a route in a totally different style. I'm big on respecting the norms and traditions of areas-- if you want to put up a serious route why not just go somewhere else? It isn't like it's hard to find rock in Tahoe. 

But yes, on the rare occasion that a route needs to be chopped, that is sometimes the best thing to do. And it's much better when the FA is involved or at least in agreement with the chopping.