If you TR and/or dog your way up a route, your downgrade suggestion should be ignored

What if my dog TRs the route? Can I dawg grade it?

Ignatius Piwrote:

I'm not convinced that that's what's going on here; to me it simply suggests that both Scott and the IG trolls have realised that there is a difference in actual difficulty - 'challenge', if you will - between a sport route and a trad route that enjoy the same rating on a scale that only measures physical difficulty.

That simply sounds like somebody spraying about how hard Seneca is. Which it may well be; but in this context that's irrelevant.

Ding ding ding! You’re correct sir  

The locations really didn’t matter at all. 

unless they go to seneca and hang and yard on gear to get up Gunsite Direct and then downgrade it to 5.3..  in which case it is totally relevant. 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

unless they go to seneca and hang and yard on gear to get up Gunsite Direct and then downgrade it to 5.3..  in which case it is totally relevant. 

Which might be what happened. I don’t know. But if it makes Connor happy, Seneca is stiffer than the gunks, the gunks is stiffer than Sand Rock, and none of that had anything to do with my post. 

This discussion underscores what I've been saying, we do have many different rating systems for different disciplines and areas. Some of them use the same numbers but they don't use the numbers the same way.

The need for the one rating to rule them all is both ridiculous and pointless. When you go to a new place, you are learning about how people talk, how they act, what they do. You also learn how they value currency, the cost of a cuppa, for example. 10 bucks in NYC is very different than 10 bucks in Gooberville Alabama.

Part of the thrill of learning a new place is learning its ways. Wishing your 10a gooberville rating was exactly the same as a 10a in the Gunks is the equivalent of looking for a Big Mac in Paris.

Cherokee Nuneswrote:

This discussion underscores what I've been saying, we do have many different rating systems for different disciplines and areas. Some of them use the same numbers but they don't use the numbers the same way.

The need for the one rating to rule them all is both ridiculous and pointless. When you go to a new place, you are learning about how people talk, how they act, what they do. You also learn how they value currency, the cost of a cuppa, for example. 10 bucks in NYC is very different than 10 bucks in Gooberville Alabama.

Part of the thrill of learning a new place is learning its ways. Wishing your 10a gooberville rating was exactly the same as a 10a in the Gunks is the equivalent of looking for a Big Mac in Paris

A Big Mac in Paris is a Big Mac. Le Big Mac, to be exact. However, I was not comparing grades. I was comparing trad to sport. Apologies for the confusion. 

Any thoughts on grading friction or Slab climbing? Some say this requires an easier learned technique. Which I kind of agree with. On the other hand, throw some water and ice on it like Chapel Pond had today and holy shit (especially the runouts). 

all bets are off when its wet and icy..  My biggest trad fall was the result of jamming an ice filled crack that is normally 9+, over dressed for good rock climbing. too cold and stiff. bad decisions. monster gear ripper. 

If your cat TRs a route, can you downgrade it? Asking for a friend.

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

all bets are off when its wet and icy..  My biggest trad fall was the result of jamming an ice filled crack that is normally 9+, over dressed for good rock climbing. too cold and stiff. bad decisions. monster gear ripper. 

Damn. I couldn’t feel anything from the ankles down the last four pitches. Regular Route (5.5) normally feels 5.3 and it felt 5.7 minimum. Totally new sketch factor too

Chapple pond a very interesting choice this time of year ;)  I have been up on Upper washbowl a few times basking in the sun feeling sorry for the poor sods freezing their buns off on the other side of the valley... 

Scott Doeringwrote:

Any thoughts on grading friction or Slab climbing? Some say this requires an easier learned technique. Which I kind of agree with. On the other hand, throw some water and ice on it like Chapel Pond had today and holy shit (especially the runouts). 

It’s funny you mention this because this thread was born from a conversation where I said I actually grade my new slab/thin face lines by TRing them so that they feel appropriately sandbagged when leading them. It’s remarkable how much harder they feel when my feet are trying to drill their own bolt once I’m sufficiently far (1mm) above my last actual one.

It is, but I like being scared shitless and you get the whole place to yourself lol 

Slab is interesting stuff. that which is terrifying on lead your 2nd can often cruise with no hands.. go figure...  harder slab is so unprobeable sometimes. 

yea yea, this climbing guide girl, climbed a trad route I established and lead that day which I was calling 5.11, she fell twice while TR'ing the route and down graded it to 5.10D

I'm like wtf mate????

Ti ckwrote:

yea yea, this climbing guide girl, climbed a trad route I established and lead that day which I was calling 5.11, she fell twice while TR'ing the route and down graded it to 5.10D

I'm like wtf mate????

The question is not whether she can send the grade cleanly every time, the question is the breadth and consistency of her experience/references.  For example, If she usually falls 3-4 times on the hundreds of 11a’s she’s attempted, and almost always only falls 1-2 times on 10c/d and can often flash 10a/b, then she can grade the route pretty accurately.  

I wa just recently at Hound Ears bouldering comp. There are a few routes with ropes on them, and one of the classics is Champagne Jam, probably in the 10+ range. Each problem/route at the comp has a small paper at the bottom describing the route and giving a point value. This one said something like “touch the ‘biners at the end to finish”

I watched a girl hang her way to the top and touch the ‘biners. Once on the ground she claimed full point credit for the “send”, claiming that the instructions just said she needed to touch the anchor…which she did. At least there was no downgrade!

Mark Pilatewrote:

The question is not whether she can send the grade cleanly every time, the question is the breadth and consistency of her experience/references.  For example, If she usually falls 3-4 times on the hundreds of 11a’s she’s attempted, and almost always only falls 1-2 times on 10c/d and can often flash 10a/b, then she can grade the route pretty accurately.  

I guess i should mention the other more experienced guide before her said 11 also and he sent it clean first go. IDK grades are so subjective its pointless to argue really

10d is an upgrade from 11a/b so she was  cool . 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

unless they go to seneca and hang and yard on gear to get up Gunsite Direct and then downgrade it to 5.3..  in which case it is totally relevant. 

Nah then it would be 5.3A3Al2SteepSnow