If you TR and/or dog your way up a route, your downgrade suggestion should be ignored

If someone asks for an opinion on a route’s grade, the correct course is to get them to disclose their opinion. Then, very dead-pan, offer a grade that is two letter grades lower than their opinion. After all, isn’t it all about establishing dominance and crushing others’ egos? 

If you downgrade a route you can’t climb, you should def be ignored. You’re a poser and your opinion carries no weight. 

Bailey Nicholsonwrote:

Some routes can't be lead for whatever reason (my local crag is a soft sandstone that likely wouldn't take bolts and definately doesn't take trad gear) , and especially with pre-hung draws and competent climbers clipping isn't usually a big issue if the route is well bolted in most and a clean no weight send should be fine either way.  I am not saying it isn't difficult when starting out or in some situations.  That being said there is a big head difference especially for newer climbers or on slab or in insane runouts.  That being said in some situations the headspace really should be factored into the grade.  For example if you top roped the bacher yerian that is clearly not the same as leading it.  That is atleast my two cents but if we are talking about sport I think it should be pretty similar.  Top roping vs trad leading is very different as so much more goes into the "clipping"

Totally agree with the head game. Definitely comes into play on sandstone. It’s great when you find some routes that you can both trad and sport lead. I was in NRG when I busted a chunk off on just a test tug of a .5 BDC. That’ll play with you mentally. Then again you can go to Great Falls, VA where I’ve found the sandstone to be bomber (although some would disagree with me). Clipping shouldn’t be that different if you have a decent stance, but trad lead a pumpy high-energy route that is both trad and sport and you’ll find it a very different experience. Especially if you then have to extend those pieces because most sport routes are bolted in a straight line to take care of drag for you. Or don’t extend and deal with the drag the rest of the way up. Also a pain when you’re multi pitching and you then have to belay your second up and deal with that. “Clipping” on trad and sport routes is entirely different depending on the route. As for runouts, I just did a 9 pitch slab route the other day when it was 40 degrees with water and ice. Those runouts are a whole different experience then!