New and experienced climbers over 50 # 25

Duncan! I love France!!!  I’ll see your Font and raise you one Ceuse :-)

Lori,

Speaking of climbing, and I am aware that others have made similar suggestions, but you would tremendously benefit from getting a large amount of climbing "milage." 

This is how one gains real experience and develops technique -- climbing moderate routes (for you), so that you can easily do several climbs in a day. 

When you are not climbing at your limit, you can then work on climbing with precision and moving smoothly and efficiently. 

The more vertical feet you climb, the more your climbing will improve. You are creating muscle memory and working towards "flow."

This will pay huge dividends when you then wish to try a climb that is hard for you.

One of the reasons Bachar and many other top climbers would often solo many pitches in a day, was -- at least in part -- to get that milage and as a part of training.

Your comment about Bob having to provide a fair amount of coaching and beta, strongly suggests that you need to gain experience and technique on easier ground.

Randywrote:

Lori,

Speaking of climbing, and I am aware that others have made similar suggestions, but you would tremendously benefit from getting a large amount of climbing "milage." 

This is how one gains real experience and develops technique -- climbing moderate routes (for you), so that you can easily do several climbs in a day. 

When you are not climbing at your limit, you can then work on climbing with precision and moving smoothly and efficiently. 

The more vertical feet you climb, the more your climbing will improve. You are creating muscle memory and working towards "flow."

This will pay huge dividends when you then wish to try a climb that is hard for you.

One of the reasons Bachar and many other top climbers would often solo many pitches in a day, was -- at least in part -- to get that milage and as a part of training.

Your comment about Bob having to provide a fair amount of coaching and beta, strongly suggests that you need to gain experience and technique on easier ground.

Thank you Randy. This route (the bottom one) was definitely at my limit and the crux moves required some precise coaching.   It’s seldom (almost never) that I tackle anything that hard.  The other routes, like Arturo’s, are far more moderate for me and I can climb those forever. 

I appreciate your comments.  On any given outing it seems to start with slow and easy routes, and move into harder if I’m up for it.  Some days I never get past “slow and easy”, which is fine.

I’d like to know how others deal with this—finding that window when you’re ready to climb hard but not already too pumped.  Could be “mileage”. 

we never see you post about cruising or flashing a route. you only seem to post about working projects. this gives us the perception that you are only interested in  hard climbs and don't have much mileage on cruisers. 

Well Lori, since you asked...

One thing I do when planning a trip to any climbing area is to go through the guidebook (or MtProj) and make a list of the recommended routes. I usually start at 5.6 and 5.7 and check out all the 4 and 5 star routes. then I do the same with 5.8, 5.9 and so on. Obviously I am relying on other people's opinions, and sometimes I'll do a route with a bunch of stars that I didn't think was all that great, or do a 2 star route that I really liked. Still, it's a good place to start. I bet there are a lot of worthwhile easier routes in Joshua Tree that you've never been on.

And while I'm still on the soapbox...

You mentioned doing a route without Bob coaching you on the moves. I have on occasion lashed out at partners who insisted on telling me what to do while I'm climbing. As my old friend Dave Mayville used to say, "I'm f***ing this dog, you're just holding his tail!" This process of working out the moves on routes that are hard for me is one of the most satisfying parts of the sport. Nothing beats the feeling of an on-site lead. I tell my partners to not give me any advice until I beg for help.

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

we never see you post about cruising or flashing a route. you only seem to post about working projects. this gives us the perception that you are only interested in  hard climbs and don't have much mileage on cruisers. 

I was going to go back and edit my response to Randy but… Really, who cares? I have been wondering if I should stop posting climbing pictures but I have really enjoyed sharing the little victories along the way and sometimes pictures that I am happy with. What really caught my eye on the above pictures was the blue sky and the fact that Colden doesn’t get much blue sky in Alaska.

For the record, I climb approximately twice a week during regular climbing season. This summer almost not at all. So time management I guess it’s important. If I am able to get out a total of 10 hours a week, it’s almost all on easier terrain and warm up. I just don’t bother to talk about it all the time. I have identified four routes that I’d like to climb this year, but it will take a lot of “mileage” to work up to those routes and  it might never happen. I’m sure not ready for them now.

To Randy’s and your point – – I’m always trying to learn and be humble enough to take in advice. When I was climbing regularly at the gym, we had mileage days, strength days, and “limit days“. There were whole cycles where I just really climbed up and down those walls to get in as many routes as possible. I sort of miss that here in Joshua Tree, because there really just hasn’t been enough time on these half-day outings.

There been 8 or 10 routes in the five years that I’ve been climbing in Joshua Tree that were really exciting for me because I worked so hard for them and/or they were classics.  And I posted them here.

Brandt… since this is my #3, thanks for sharing. I also prefer to climb most routes without coaching. Then there are a few where it’s tough all the way and I appreciate being (loudly) talked through it. Dog Day Afternoon comes to mind. My first real “project “. And I just wasn’t able to handle the crux. Maybe another time.

Living here we do have the luxury of thousands of routes to choose from.  I feel very blessed… I’m sure you do, too.  

This is what makes bouldering fun. You can be as serious....or not...as you wish, with the same 3x6 foot bit of rock as the friends you're with. All climbing the thing differently. Even in gyms, when setters try to set a problem for specific moves? Climbers don't always comply, and find all sorts of ways to get up those holds!

When we're out bouldering? I'm often looking to see what sort of moves a boulder has to offer, just to have a chance to try a heel hook or something, even if it's improbable. Two or three moves, can make me happy! 

That's also how I tend to climb in the gym, and the fun part of top roping. Picking which bits and pieces to climb, not even aiming for the route proper, unless my partner has stuck me with climbing through the draws, lol! 

Has the hurricane hit yet? Boise is likely in line for a direct hit, with whatever is left, starting tomorrow. Old lady needs to get her ass out there and mow! Could be a big (for us) rain event....or not. 

Best wishes! Helen

Hey Brandt, my favorite 5.6 is Poking Holes in the Firmament, at COR! Really should get more stars, but it's not a multi, and easy, so it doesn't.

I remember Poking Holes... great climbing on beautiful rock!

Lori. we are rooting for you. we want you to get better and live your dream.  you made it seem like you only did climbs that were at or over your limit.  Glad to hear you get out on cruisers as well. that's the best way to find the flow. 

She’s doing remarkably well. 

Lori Milaswrote:

I’d like to know how others deal with this—finding that window when you’re ready to climb hard but not already too pumped.  Could be “mileage”. 

Lori, I appreciate your clarification about your routine. And, warming up on easier climbs before working a project is always the recommended program.

However, what I am suggesting is just doing lots of easy to moderate routes (up to your regular "on-sight" level) only. The key to this is doing a wide variety of types of climbs. "Working your weaknesses" doesn't seem like fun, but it is an essential component of this. Yet, you may very well find it "fun," particularly if you start at a very low level of the types of climbs you are worst at (or hate) the most. 

The reason to develop a wide repertoire of techniques is that most climbs are not "pure" one type of climbing. And, even then, sometimes an unusual technique may make a move or a crux easier.

Bringing all this back to being an older climber: A climber with a large "bag of tricks" can often overcome a declining level of absolute power or endurance.

In addition, sometimes you are "on' and sometimes "not." As you age, "Not" days become more frequent (or at least more noticeable). Those days, maybe a change of plans and enjoying movement over stone or a different objective is a good stratagem.

As far as "working" a route, my rule of thumb has been, if after a few sessions, I cannot actually do every individual move (even if I am nowhere close to linking the entire route), then it is too hard for me. I need to train more or spend more productive time working and climbing routes at an easier grade.

Frank Stein. Thank you for your service!

When “real climbing” I love using double ropes- just so much more versatile, powerful and safe. I always wondered about people who pull thin tag lines around. Figure they climb in a completely different environment from the “granite world” that is my home. How to manage a 6 mm rope trailing way down there?

And Idaho Bob. No judgment but I need to ask regarding rap bolting. Do you climb the proposed root several times before slamming in a bolt? I have rap bolted a lot in the last few years. Like all old trad dads I considered it cheating at one time, but after climbing on questionable Granite and having my partner pull off a “longboard sized flake” that missed me by about oh 12 inches or so I altered my stance on the practice. When me and my mates put up roots we TR the heck out of it, remove any and all loose stuff, and make sure the final product is perfect In all respects.

Mark- you got me very confused- is that an old photo?

Lori- I really love motion sensor lights. Maybe get some game cameras. Use as evidence. And if possible have a firm discussion with crazy neighbor. Maybe tell him Tony suffers from PTSD and how you stopped him from blowing the dudes head off when he was snooping and banging around the other day. Keep him guessing. Anyone who would walk around with an AR or two, and walk up to your home, is never to be trusted.
What happened to the teen who lived there? TRO’s are not worth the paper they are written on.
Good luck.

I still have some Tomatoes showing up - the payoff for living in semi coastal California. But otherwise my thumbs are black! I’ve been able to grow Tomatoes, Basil, garlic, herbs and Peppers. But have been shutdown completely on Carrots!, Cucumbers and Green Beans.  What the heck? Maybe time to go study under OLH???? She has green hands!

Duncan. Yes, The French do know how to run a city mass transit system. When I was 13 my Mom remarried and I was yanked out of my - living in a orange grove, riding mini-bikes and horses and walking to school life and thrust into Paris - metro riding to school- and all around the city- the freedom! It changed me forever.

Carl- you go crush that comp! (Have fun, really)

Later all. 

Yes, now it's all about training killer cats!

Molly is still holding the fort down.

Guy Keeseewrote:

Frank Stein. Thank you for your service!

When “real climbing” I love using double ropes- just so much more versatile, powerful and safe. I always wondered about people who pull thin tag lines around. Figure they climb in a completely different environment from the “granite world” that is my home. How to manage a 6 mm rope trailing way down there?

And Idaho Bob. No judgment but I need to ask regarding rap bolting. Do you climb the proposed root several times before slamming in a bolt? I have rap bolted a lot in the last few years. Like all old trad dads I considered it cheating at one time, but after climbing on questionable Granite and having my partner pull off a “longboard sized flake” that missed me by about oh 12 inches or so I altered my stance on the practice. When me and my mates put up roots we TR the heck out of it, remove any and all loose stuff, and make sure the final product is perfect In all respects.

Mark- you got me very confused- is that an old photo?

Lori- I really love motion sensor lights. Maybe get some game cameras. Use as evidence. And if possible have a firm discussion with crazy neighbor. Maybe tell him Tony suffers from PTSD and how you stopped him from blowing the dudes head off when he was snooping and banging around the other day. Keep him guessing. Anyone who would walk around with an AR or two, and walk up to your home, is never to be trusted.
What happened to the teen who lived there? TRO’s are not worth the paper they are written on.
Good luck.

I still have some Tomatoes showing up - the payoff for living in semi coastal California. But otherwise my thumbs are black! I’ve been able to grow Tomatoes, Basil, garlic, herbs and Peppers. But have been shutdown completely on Carrots!, Cucumbers and Green Beans.  What the heck? Maybe time to go study under OLH???? She has green hands!

Duncan. Yes, The French do know how to run a city mass transit system. When I was 13 my Mom remarried and I was yanked out of my - living in a orange grove, riding mini-bikes and horses and walking to school life and thrust into Paris - metro riding to school- and all around the city- the freedom! It changed me forever.

Carl- you go crush that comp! (Have fun, really)

Later all. 

That statement will come in real handy for the deceased family’s attorney in a civil suit or the prosecutor at Tony’s trial to help prove intent and lessen the self defense case.

Tim Schafstallwrote:

That statement will come in real handy for the deceased family’s attorney in a civil suit or the prosecutor at Tony’s trial to help prove intent and lessen the self defense case.

I'm confused.  You have a 70 yr old female and a 65+ male with recent back surgery.  The neighbor is well known to law enforcement and has had swat called at least once.  Probably incarcerated multiple times.  Bullshit websites with rando's spouting non-sense wouldn't seem to me to be interesting with this backdrop.  But, I'm not a lawayer.

I know it's California, but if you end a well known tweaker who is threatening you and entered your house? I think you'll be OK ending him.  I would call every time he goes beyond the pale and establish a record.  

I believe people should be able to feel safe in their house. Lori, the situation for you and Tony is horrible.  I feel for you and hope you do whatever you need to do to feel safe.

Returning to climbing, there's a whole spectrum of ways to enjoy what climbing has to offer, and I dare say few if any of us have walked or are walking in Lori's shoes.  I don't mean to criticize any of the advice---I would have given a lot of it myself and have in the past---but Lori (and everyone else) has to find Their Way.  It may not be My Way or Your Way.  It may and likely will change over time.  It might not, at any moment, be an optimal way to get better.  (There are now parts of the climbing world who say that if you aren't doing everything possible to get better, you are somehow failing at being a climber and maybe even at being a human being. And I think some of that leaks over, perhaps subliminally, into attitudes that are apparently a lot more moderate.)  

There's a lot of accumulated wisdom here, but even so, we don't have all the bases covered.  Lori seems to know what she wants, and we would all like to see her get there.  But what we have to offer is basically how we "got there," and in addition to our paths being perhaps not right as Lori's paths, there is the likelihood that our "there" is not her "there."

This is not an attempt to quiet suggestions. After all, they are a lot of what transpires in places like this. But every now and then we should perhaps pause in our enthusiasm for clearing the way to a destination that might not be quite what Lori wants or needs and recognize, not all the ways in which her journey is a recapitulation of ours, but rather some of the things that make her path unique. And with that recognition comes a realization that perhaps we can't always help (sorry guys, I know that's our thing), but we can still cheer her on.

Guy Keeseewrote:

Carl- you go crush that comp! (Have fun, really)

Later all. 

Thanks Guy, I’ll try.
Did a bit of indoor bouldering today. Rode my motorcycle there and got a bit cold and damp so wasn’t really in to it. Boulders are rated by colour. I normally do Purples (intermediate) and Pinks (harder intermediates). I flashed an overhanging Purple with a hard right cross move and later overheard some young guys talking about how it was ‘one if the hardest Purples they’ve ever tried’. Then I heard another young guy say ‘I had nightmares about hat problem’ and I couldn’t help myself from audibly scoffing. It just slipped out. It was slightly tricky with a difficult start on the overhang from a big double undercling with no feet, feet smearing on the wall. I was surprised to see one of the young guys (about 25 years old I guess) fail repeatedly on the start move. Some young people have no real ‘grunty’ strength and no gumption! I might hobble away from a boulder on swollen knees but at least I have grunt and gumption!
I’m trying lose a kilo or two before the comp and think about mental strategy and concentrating on having a plan to have fun but to not be too embarrassing. I’d like to at least come in the top half, regardless of how many guys compete. Apparently there’s four routes from us teens to mid 20s (Aust grades, so up to about 5.12b, not sure what grade a 15 would be, 5.9?, 5.8?

BTW Lori, seems that JT routes have no actual holds? Just smooth rock with some cracks? I think I wouldn’t like climbing there. 

Randywrote:

As far as "working" a route, my rule of thumb has been, if after a few sessions, I cannot actually do every individual move (even if I am nowhere close to linking the entire route), then it is too hard for me. I need to train more or spend more productive time working and climbing routes at an easier grade.

Same here.  Sometimes it is not just the grade, it is either I fail to see the moves or moves I am particularly bad at.
These days, it is almost always three good whacks at it or bust for me.

Guy Keeseewrote:

And Idaho Bob. No judgment but I need to ask regarding rap bolting. Do you climb the proposed root several times before slamming in a bolt? I have rap bolted a lot in the last few years. Like all old trad dads I considered it cheating at one time, but after climbing on questionable Granite and having my partner pull off a “longboard sized flake” that missed me by about oh 12 inches or so I altered my stance on the practice. When me and my mates put up roots we TR the heck out of it, remove any and all loose stuff, and make sure the final product is perfect In all respects.

Later all. 

Guy, we only bolt routes that offer no points of protection and can't be climbed on trad gear.  That said, have done a couple of mixed routes, no need of a bolt if a cam or nut can be placed AND, the runout reasonable for those climbing with no trad gear.

For routes that can be climbed trad we'll place a top anchor, and an intermediate rap station if the pitch is longer than can be rapped with a 60m (that's just to make it safe, not everyone climbs with a 70).

Randywrote:

When you are not climbing at your limit, you can then work on climbing with precision and moving smoothly and efficiently. 

The more vertical feet you climb, the more your climbing will improve. You are creating muscle memory and working towards "flow."

All true to me.
I have found another piece of mileage training which has had a positive impact; finsihing the day by leading some warm up grade routes which ought to feel a bit hard but not impossible.
This practice fources me to concentrate more on technique and footwork and rely less on the arms.  It has given me confidence to make moderate moves near the end of a long day (600+ ft) when the tank is near empty, my fingers ache, and nearly all I can think about is a cold one and a good dinner.