Seneca Rocks Accident 8/5

Matt Barryman wrote:

I was there to help with the recovery as well, and they took a drone up before pulling the rope down and took detailed video and pictures of the situation.  Appeared that there was a gear placement that needed to be extended and wasn’t, and from what people who were actually present during the accident said, he took an intentional fall on a solid piece he had placed, and as he did the rope cut on a sharp edge when it was weighted causing him to fall from a little bit above the ledge of the 2nd pitch.  Very very unfortunate. We also examined the rope and it was relatively new, still having the tape on both ends, & it was very clear to see from the way it looked that it was cut on an edge. It all was basically caused because of an issue with rope management we believe.  Hopefully a more detailed report comes out from someone more knowledgeable than me, and I hope his family can find peace eventually knowing he was doing something he absolutely loved! This is the rope pictured above..^^^^

When in doubt, extend. Don’t see enough extending out there nowadays. 

With every placement I try to envision what will happen with the rope, not just the piece itself, especially with sharp edges around.

Godspeed.

Tradiban wrote:

When in doubt, extend. Don’t see enough extending out there nowadays. 

With every placement I try to envision what will happen with the rope, not just the piece itself, especially with sharp edges around.

Did you not see Patrick Hoffman's response to the post you quoted? Here it is:

Second responder and one of of the guides who cleaned the pitch the next morning here. 

You have some things wrong there. Please don't speculate with incomplete information.

Marc801 C wrote:

Did you not see Patrick Hoffman's response to the post you quoted? Here it is:

Yes.

Doesn't mean he can't talk about the dangers of not extending. We need to hear those sometimes and this can be the place. A shame to hear of this accident, so sorry for those involved and condolences to all.

Matt Barryman wrote:

I agree with Patrick that there are some things wrong with this analysis from the reports that I've told.....

Patrick Hoffman wrote:

Second responder and one of of the guides who cleaned the pitch the next morning here. 

You have some things wrong there. Please don't speculate with incomplete information.

Thanks Patrick for bringing my gear back down from the Crack of Dawn area and for your help with everything that day.

Alright I wasn’t going to say anything but a friend just texted me about this thread. We were at candy corner and watched them for 30 minutes leading up to the moment he fell and sprinted over to find Danny. The belayer did nothing wrong, she managed the rope properly. We couldn’t tell if the bottom piece was extended or not. I’m not going to get into details about the aftermath cause it’s sad and we’re still trying to work through this ourselves. I think it’s amazing that amidst the situation she was of sound enough mind to repel off the anchor.
she did say that they knew the drag would be an issue so once he got his third piece in she was going to pull the problematic piece. Unfortunately that next piece never got put in. Everyone just be safe.
It was amazing to see everyone come together and do what they could to help. 

Just so you guys know, I was never trying to spread false information or make anyone think I was blaming a belayer or anybody whatsoever, that literally could have been any of us that day!  The post I originally posted was just what I experienced as of Saturday afternoon, and what we as a small team thought to be a very probable scenario after examining the situation after the recovery.  That was the main reason I also ended my post with the statement saying I hoped a more complete report from someone more qualified and knowledgeable than me would be posted or released.  We were not part of the team who cleaned the route the next day, we aren’t guides, and I’m sure there have been more details uncovered since Saturday afternoon.  I maybe could have worded it differently, or not “speculated on incomplete info”, but I felt that until an official report was released I would give the most accurate report of what I experienced there that day.  I just hope regardless of what the report says, we can all use this situation as a learning experience, and just focus on doing everything as safe as possible while still sending epic things! I’m so glad we were all able to work together and get him down, & I hope we can all keep doing this amazing sport as long as possible!   Hug your peeps, be safe, & do amazing things!!! 

Relax brother Matt. All good or at least should be with most.

Michael Catlett wrote:

Relax brother Matt. All good or at least should be with most.

Thank you! 

We gave a statement to the us forest service and state police after everything was done with. Maybe they’ll make that public records, I’m not sure. 

So after talking to numerous people about this accident it seems like the following consensus has been reached that the rope was laying flat on a sloping area of rock when the leader fall was taken and the rope was pinched off by the carabiner. 

Unfortunately it doesn't sound like any official analysis of the incident is going to be released.

Bryan L wrote:

So after talking to numerous people about this accident it seems like the following consensus has been reached that the rope was laying flat on a sloping area of rock when the leader fall was taken and the rope was pinched off by the carabiner. 

Unfortunately it doesn't sound like any official analysis of the incident is going to be released.

In other words, the strand running to the belayer was pinched between the carabiner and the rock face, and the force of the leader fall caused enough abrasion for the rope to fail?

Doug S wrote:

In other words, the strand running to the belayer was pinched between the carabiner and the rock face, and the force of the leader fall caused enough abrasion for the rope to fail?

Huh????

Doug S wrote:

In other words, the strand running to the belayer was pinched between the carabiner and the rock face, and the force of the leader fall caused enough abrasion for the rope to fail?

Exactly. 

Curious what diameter rope we're talking here? And wow that's awful

I'm having a hard time visualizing how this could happen.  Are there any other details known about the rope configuration that can be shared?

It hard to describe how this happens in words. I’m an arborist and have seen this happen doing rigging in tree work.

You need the carabiner in a non vertical position (say laying on a slabby edge of rock or other protrusion) and when load is applied to the rope, the rope wraps say back around the carabiner and pinches the belayer side of the rope between the carabiner and the rock. Also think of it like how the guide mode on an ATC works. Hope this helps. 

Thanks for the update Bryan.

I took the liberty to make a sketch based on my understanding of said description? I hope there is more to it than this because it doesn't seem like a scenario that would cut a rope through unless there was some sort of very sharp edge in exactly the wrong place.

Old lady H wrote:

Huh????

I know. And that’s why I was asking for clarity, the thought that that is a failure mode is scary.  As I’m understanding it, the rope was pinched in the same way it gets pinched when you’re trying to pull a rappel, and the wrong strand is on top. So that would also reduce the dynamic elongation and subsequently increase the fall factor. That would also explain the account that said, the belayer didn’t feel the fall. Because the rope was pinched.  

Very sad. RIP

Bryan L wrote:

It hard to describe how this happens in words. I’m an arborist and have seen this happen doing rigging in tree work.

You need the carabiner in a non vertical position (say laying on a slabby edge of rock or other protrusion) and when load is applied to the rope, the rope wraps say back around the carabiner and pinches the belayer side of the rope between the carabiner and the rock. Also think of it like how the guide mode on an ATC works. Hope this helps. 

Thank you, I think I get it now.  If this is really the cause it sounds like pure dumb (bad) luck that could happen to any of us.  I'll be paying a bit more attention to how my own carabiners lay after this.

Can anyone share which route this happened on?