New and experienced climbers over 50 # 25

we swam in cleavland. it's the only water we could find anywhere near COR..??? we used google earth and every time we investigated a spot of water it was nasty ag trench with green alge.. Cleavland was great swimming but by the time we got back to COR we were hot again.. 

The city used to be where to go when it was hot...

Lori Milaswrote:

Ever since I suggested you work on that pineal/3rd eye situation you've been pushing the kombucha.  A little kombucha wouldn't hurt you, Russ... and it might make you a much sweeter person.   

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I was hiking in a new area, and paying such close attention to watching the ground for any possible snakes that I totally missed this beautiful little family of six hiking right next to me.  They were SO close that I was startled to look up and see them milling about parallel to me. 

  

My first thought when I saw the dad was gee... those are big horns.  I have not recently googled whether these are the type of animal to CHARGE.    I mean seriously, I have no idea of whether or not they might become irritated at having me so close... but I took a seat on a nearby rock and just sat with them, they were not bothered by me at all.  When the little one grazed to within a few feet of me, dad started to look concerned.  I thought perhaps I should head on out.  This was such a memorable morning. 

I was playing soft Hawaiian music... ukele and yodeling and all.  I think they liked it.  Mahalo.  

It was all going so well--no snakes under rocks!--until I was sort of happily heading back to my car along a trail I've walked dozens of times, when this guy appeared immediately next to the trail.

This was not where I expected to find another rattlesnake.  I jumped back and gave a wide berth.  Very shortly he emerged from this bush, along the trail, and heading in my direction. (this pic is after I was well past him/her)

Whereas the previous 4 snakes I've run into did not feel threatening... this situation absolutely did.  I narrowly missed a serious encounter.  And that rattle was so soft there is no way I would have heard it...just a very faint little buzz. 

I mean... I really feel like I need to know.... just how bad could a bite be?  By my reckoning, it would be 30 minute walk back to my car, 20 minutes out of the park, and another 20-30 minutes to the hospital.  Would I be ok that long?  Is there immediate pain?  I understand there is nothing to do but 'get to help'.  

What a gorgeous, wild and wonderful desert this is.  (And no kombucha... )

Nice wildlife siting, Lori! Any day I see a snake is a good one ( as long as i don't get bitten.) Also, bighorns are wonderful to experience. My favorite was when I was climbing with my friend Linda, and we saw two rams. They were not so close, but we could see them sparring. They pranced up, then crashed together, making a notable sound. Then repeated, again and again. I will never forget. I feel so fortunate to be able to see them regularly here in Red Rock. Also, we have feral donkeys, relics from the early days of mining in Nevada. Desert life has so many serendipitous events. It is delightful to follow your chronicles.

cassondra lwrote:

Nice wildlife siting, Lori! Any day I see a snake is a good one ( as long as i don't get bitten.) Also, bighorns are wonderful to experience. My favorite was when I was climbing with my friend Linda, and we saw two rams. They were not so close, but we could see them sparring. They pranced up, then crashed together, making a notable sound. Then repeated, again and again. I will never forget. I feel so fortunate to be able to see them regularly here in Red Rock. Also, we have feral donkeys, relics from the early days of mining in Nevada. Desert life has so many serendipitous events. It is delightful to follow your chronicles.

Thank you so much, Cassondra!  I didn't know you live in Red Rock!  How great it would be to see a feral donkey... I've heard about these!  

I am lifting one of Todd Gordon's FB photos from last night... the freeway leading out of Yucca and into JT.  Tony and I were driving home from dinner in Palm Springs and hit this traffic, he wondered what it was all about, I joked and said "Everyone is coming to the Park to watch the meteor shower."  Well... that's what it was. Everyone was here for the meteor shower.

I missed the whole thing... I was in bed with an ear ache.  I hope it was spectacular, wish I could have seen it.

Lori

Last year we took a day off from climbing at Red Rocks and went to hike at Valley of the Gods. We have seen bighorn sheep multiple times also at Red Rocks. 

These 2 guys walked almost to the trail that we were on. They were about 20 feet from us.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kocQf8EGFrw

John

Lori, the photo you posted was taken by Todd's wife showing Quail Springs Road leading up to the entrance to JTNP. I live about a mile and a half from the Park entrance. Around 5:00 we noticed a lot of traffic heading up into the Park. By 7:00 it was bumper to bumper, stop and go as far as I could see down the road. It lasted ALL NIGHT LONG.

Here is a photo taken at 2:00 AM from my back porch, about a quarter mile from the road, still packed with cars.

There were people driving all through the neighborhood on the dirt roads trying to short-cut the traffic. At one point two fire trucks and an ambulance came through, lights flashing and sirens blaring, inching their way up the left-hand lane against oncoming cars. 

It was a night I'll always remember as "The Insanity of Humanity."

Brandt: our posts crossed.  Doggone it.  That's ugly.  I was feeling sorry for myself that I got this ear infection and couldn't see any of it.  Maybe it was a blessing after all.  Did you at least get to see the meteors? 

I've been really grinding on this number "70"... the birthday that is coming up in one month.  I would so love to hear what your landmark birthdays have meant for you.  

It's just that there's no manual for this.  I don't know what to expect... what's 'age appropriate'.  I don't know how to read the signs.  When you get married, there are ceremonies and plenty of advice columns and friends doing the same thing.  When you have babies... there's a million books, doctors, midwives... to hand out info.  But when you hit 70 and want to climb rocks... nothin'.  

I'm sure the level of calm and acceptance most people here have around aging comes from having already done most of what you ever wanted to do... physically, climbing-wise, fun-wise. (?) You've checked off most of the boxes over the decades, and seem to have a real peace and satisfaction with whatever the current situ is.  Although that doesn't explain my good friend, or other friends of mine, who are making a science of 'going gently into that good night'.  

Reflecting on my own ages 30-65... I was so busy raising children, rescuing teenagers who were killing themselves, running a business... and I heard the continual "These are your prime years, Lori. This is when you should be on a cruise.".  But I never left my post, no way could I have gone on that cruise.  My family had so many crises and deaths that I just had to be there... but what I promised myself was, when this is all over, I'll have some fun.   

So... I started my fun at 65 like a shot out of a cannon--and I've hung on to this fun and can't let go.  So when I have a bad day on the rock, or get injured or sick... I'm wondering, 'so was that it? Fun over?'  Guy helped me a lot here... encouraging me to just get a move on.  Don't stall up there in Sacramento.  And I'm just having a ball.  Especially in the summertimes here... when the park is so empty, big and totally wild... I will remember these as days of roaming every morning for hours, and eating watermelon and watching movies with Tony in the afternoons.  

It is 'bucket list' time for me approaching 70.  A trusted advisor suggested I spend some time reworking my concept of 70, and create a new vision.  I'm wondering if any of you have envisioned what's coming up for you?  Anyone have some framework, a list, goals?  What's important to you today?

In the climbing world, I have let go of the long list of routes I wanted to tick off... and reduced it down to 4 (plus all the pyramid building leading up to them)... leaving hopefully time to go discover some new things.  I'd be happy if I could visit this handful of routes this year, even if I cannot manage the climbs:  

White Room

Trix

The Decompensator of Lhasa

The Compassion of The Elephants

Tying up loose ends... I dragged these books back in my house from my UCLA days when I thought I wanted to major in Ancient Chinese.  I'd really like to get back to these.  

Maybe find that pool hall/bowling alley here.  Grow a better tomato next year.  Sit in some lakes and rivers for a LONG time.  

I think that's it for now.  

What's on your list?

Nice list Lori! Sunset pic from Friday with my Cannon Elph. 

The meteor shower was pretty awesome. I watched from my backyard at Joshua Tree drinking champagne with my wife and counted about 20 meteors per hour, including some spectacular ones that looked like short-lived comets. More amazing was the amount of cars going into the Park. The backup past my house (which is a half mile from the entrance) on the road leading into the Park started at 4 pm, with a steady, slow-moving stream of cars that lasted until 3 am. My "back of the envelope" calculation is roughly 25,000 cars!

Geez.... that's a lot of cars. But, at least they were interested in something not involving a screen or barcalounger, eh? I forgot about it, oops. 

My experience sorta parallels Lori. Only starting climbing at 58. But, the huge change, for the rest of my life, was Dave dying. That's only a few years ago, and very suddenly, I have a life with no limitations at all.

Except a 66 year old body. That never did anything at all, before.

So here I am. THIS is it, an extraordinary third chance at life. Whatcha gonna do with it, girl?

Birthdays, 50 was fun, because my son became a teen then. Both birthdays are days apart in January. Cake had a glorious amount of candles!

60?

I was still at work. It kinda got forgotten, and I don't remember much of anything at home, either. It was quite grim, by then, and my son had moved out. But, my rather sudden departure from work was just around the corner. They did do a party for that one.

I just realized this morning, this last trip? It's the first time we didn't even go to COR proper. Only Castle, lol! 

And yes, City is the go to when it's hot, but because of the main mission of doing food prep, and sleep issues, we didn't have mornings, which were quite nice. And, didn't feel like humping out to Drilling Fields late in the day, for stuff we've already done a lot. Plus, it's a hot hike in and out. I've hit serious heat issues twice, on that hike.

Mostly it's old whineyassedness, of course. And abject lazy. 

H.

Lori - I can't give you any great words of wisdom on your birthday. New Years, New Centuries, Anniversaries, Birthdays, to me they all seem like a celebration of humans' ability to count. Most of us learned this at an early age.

Edit: Says the guy who keeps meticulous records of how many routes he's done!

I might jump off the Perrine bridge, for my 70. 

Helen

Lori Milaswrote:

I was playing soft Hawaiian music... ukele and yodeling and all.  I think they liked it.  Mahalo.  

Thank you Lori and Nick and OLH for your pictures and tales. All of them reminders of what an amazing planet we live on. Also, reminders of how fortunate we are to be able to surround ourselves with beauty. And make the most of it doing fun things before we disappear.

I was down on the Kenai Peninsula last week and saw these ungulates high above Cooper Landing. Also, the rapidly retreating Exit Glacier down by Seward. 

Colden Darkwrote:

Thank you Lori and Nick and OLH for your pictures and tales. All of them reminders of what an amazing planet we live on. Also, reminders of how fortunate we are to be able to surround ourselves with beauty. And make the most of it doing fun things before we disappear.

I was down on the Kenai Peninsula last week and saw these ungulates high above Cooper Landing. Also, the rapidly retreating Exit Glacier down by Seward. 

I had to look up 'ungulate'.  These guys are related to my bighorn sheep?!?    Yes, we are so lucky, in so many ways.  While I struggle with this aging thing, I always feel gratitude for the beauty, the land around us, and the privilege of making choices.

Dan Delange published a short story by Lynn Hill on John Bachar.  I lifted this quote; "John Bachar was like a big brother to me. We were a part of a large family of friends bonded together by our common passion for climbing and our basic philosophical attitude toward life. We strived to free climb in the best style possible by doing the “most with the least” – meaning that we pushed ourselves on the most demanding climbs imaginable with minimal reliance on our equipment. John was a perfectionist and climbing was his means of achieving mastery."

I've listened to podcasts (by Honnold) talking about the bolt wars, the beliefs of what's acceptable in various styles of climbing.  It's taken me time to understand Bachar's vehemence about ground up, no hang dogging, elegant and honest climbing.  

And here I am, years (decades) later, feeling the same way, but realizing that if I had to follow John's vision and ethic, I would not be climbing at all.  I wonder how John would feel today, talking to an old(er) person who loves climbing, but in no way could take the risks of leading routes, of heading in unpracticed and unrehearsed.  Can we still be perfectionists with the same goals of achieving mastery in climbing... within the limits of age and ability?      

I just took this picture just now.  If I had taken it in Northern Ca it would mean freezing cold temps, rain and possibly snow.  Here it's 90+ degrees, thunder and great lightening bolts... a monsoon!  

Lori, I think we have to just take this aging thing one day at a time in our own individual way. We are all different in so many ways—though there are also the commonalities—such as the end result and that things overall don’t get better beyond a certain point, that we have to make our own way as best we can in the manner that seems to work best for us individually. There is no ‘manual’ or ‘guidebook’ because there is no one ‘right’ way to handle this ‘process’—often because much is beyond our actual control. Specifically,  in terms of climbing, among those of us who have been climbing most of our lives, yes, we do have the memories of our youthful antics to look back upon, but some are no longer able to climb or have chosen not to continue, while others of us grapple with diminishing abilities ( some with more grace and better humor than others). Starting significantly later in life, you face different challenges but also new opportunities to learn and progress and to achieve your own goals—for you so much is fresh and new. There is no reason to compare your goals to those of others. Set your own course, with advice and guidance from others, such as Bob, if you desire, but they should be ones that bring satisfaction to you, now—that’s all that this should be about.

About Bacher, I didn’t know him personally ( as others on here clearly did), but was very aware of his reputation, especially as we were of pretty much the same climbing generation (well, I guess that I’m a bit older). He was an icon and role-model for many, but, as quoted in that article, he was a perfectionist and an idealist, a status hard for most to maintain. Yet, to some extent that perfectionism and idealism led him into somewhat of a dead end—or, better, a cul-de-sac, in terms of climbing evolution, as sport climbing, representing quite different values, ended up becoming dominant. Lynn Hill, is a perfect example of this, choosing to adapt to the new style—and excelling at it, while John maintained his purist approach. There is nothing inherently wrong with either way, just that one has now become the mainstream. But, in terms of your own climbing, while I strongly believe that it is very worthwhile to learn about this history, there is no need to measure yourself against either of them, but to instead make the best of what is currently available to you.

"I just took this picture just now.  If I had taken it in Northern Ca it would mean freezing cold temps, rain and possibly snow.  Here it's 90+ degrees, thunder and great lightening bolts... a monsoon!"  

I'm in NorCal, Redding and the temp at my place is 111 F., 

90 and rain would be nice. 

Wife and I are going to bail to the NorCal and Oregon coast tomorrow for at least a week to seek relief from the Redding oven.

Carry on...

Tad

Alan Rubinwrote:

...Yet, to some extent that perfectionism and idealism led him into somewhat of a dead end—or, better, a cul-de-sac, in terms of climbing evolution, as sport climbing, representing quite different values, ended up becoming dominant. Lynn Hill, is a perfect example of this, choosing to adapt to the new style—and excelling at it, while John maintained his purist approach. There is nothing inherently wrong with either way, just that one has now become the mainstream. But, in terms of your own climbing, while I strongly believe that it is very worthwhile to learn about this history, there is no need to measure yourself against either of them, but to instead make the best of what is currently available to you.

I've seen John do lots of sport climbs. He was way into it, and did most of the hardest routes in the Owens Gorge (mostly where I saw him), but also at Red Rocks. I recall one year he made quite a splash in some areas in Spain when he on-sighted a bunch of .13's. Of course all of this was without a rope, so maybe that's not really sport climbing   .

Thinking about these comments on Bachar, and my own... maybe what I was really impressed by was his honesty, ethic and seriousness.  As it relates to 'old people climbing'... I don't want to be dismissed, no matter how limited my own abilities may be, or will become.  I was pondering whether that same ethic can be applied today, even in the context of a 5.10 climber on top rope.  I think it can.

Last season I was working on a route with Bob, and worked that thing to death.  I could almost climb it... but briefly fell at some point each time.  On the final ascent I likely got the whole thing... except for one fall/wobble.  I know it was a fall.  While Bachar probably could have skated up... it's not about that comparison.  It has something to do with integrity.  I'd like to complete the climb, clean and honest and as much under my own steam as possible.  (Tiptoe to Topanga.  shoecam)

On the other hand... there have been a few routes I really wanted to climb, and I knew there was some move I could never do... and I was content with a workaround.  

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All the talk here about bolting, retrobolting, and redoing entire routes for the modern population... I didn't get it.  Until Guy asked me 'how would you feel if one of your favorite routes was bolted every 5 feet'... something like that.  In that spirit, I want to honor the vision and skill of the climbers who got this whole thing rolling.  I don't know about other places.  But I do know Joshua Tree is about a vibe, an ethic, and a special connection to this earth, about minimalism...and routes were established within that context.  So, now I'm happy to admire from a distance and pass by the ones I can't touch.

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In an hour I'm on my way into Palm Springs to meet Tony at his Cardiology appointment at Eisenhower.  I have to do something about my attitude before I get there, because I'm feeling hostile and snarky.  When I think of all the crap that has been done to his poor heart to keep it ticking... stents, cardioversions, a TON of drugs... but never once in 30 years has a doctor asked Tony about his diet, sleep, exercise.  Now I'm reading his scans and reports and asking 'Did no one seriously talk to you about any of this before?'  

It seems our choices these days are drugs/surgeries... or chakra alignment.    

I

I got back last night from my annual two week trip to Mammoth Lakes. I set out on this trip just 5 days after coming down with Covid, so I had to push through some exhaustion to get out to climb, but I had some great days climbing with partners Mark, Denise, Skip, Joey, and Paul.  As previously confessed, I rarely take photos, but here are two.  First is me and Frumy at Horseshoe Piles (accidently taken in portrait mode, so you can't see the beautiful granite):

This one is Skip and Joey at Rimview:

Nice Phyl, Skip is looking good!  Not sure the same can be said of that shaggy guy behind you in the first pic.

Lori, Bachar was not JUST about ethics in how a route was bolted.  He was hugely concerned with how it was climbed.  His style and grace were almost unmatched and he was the first that I knew that systematically pursued that.  All moves should be static if at all possible.  The whole body should be in COMPLETE control.  He influenced a huge number of climbers that both climbed with him and that came after him.  For me, that style was what Bachar will always stand for, not the brief period that the bolt wars was an issue.

Jan Mcwrote:

Nice Phyl, Skip is looking good!  Not sure the same can be said of that shaggy guy behind you in the first pic.

Lori, Bachar was not JUST about ethics in how a route was bolted.  He was hugely concerned with how it was climbed.  His style and grace were almost unmatched and he was the first that I knew that systematically pursued that.  All moves should be static if at all possible.  The whole body should be in COMPLETE control.  He influenced a huge number of climbers that both climbed with him and that came after him.  For me, that style was what Bachar will always stand for, not the brief period that the bolt wars was an issue.

Thanks, Jan.  Not long ago a friend loaned me a video... I think it was a volume of Masters of Stone... and I watched clips of all the greats, Ron Kauk, John Long... a lot of familiar faces.  And then there was a clip of the most graceful climber I have ever seen, he reminded me of a swimmer doing a slow lap on a pool.  That, of course, was Bachar, and I was riveted.  I kept rewinding to watch this guy, so steady, so absolutely smooth and certain on a very overhung route.    

So, when I think about the ethic of climbing, I guess I wasn't referring to the bolting, but to that honesty and grace.  We can aspire, at whatever we do out there, to be that honest.  

It's so hard to be a late-blooming climber with such huge limits, but I can always admire and take in what I can.  You climbed the BY... that still blows my mind.  I had asked Bob WHY can't someone just put up a few extra bolts so more people can climb it.  Now I totally understand.  We need... I need... people to admire.  For whatever his faults, and I have heard he was pig-headed and wouldn't flow with the times, I admire what he gave to the world of climbing.  

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How are the tomato crops out there?  Has everyone closed up shop?  I finally succeeded in making a gluten free dumpling for a beloved Ukranian chicken soup.  That's dinner tonight.

Tony and I have watched one too many Alaska shows where the favorite dish seems to be fried caribou brains.  

Phylp... so sorry you got COVID!  A reminder that it's still out there, I guess.  Glad you were able to carry on, and I hope you are all recovered now.