DOGS!

DOGS!!!!!

When does it stop??

I’ve heard I’m sorry, I’m sorry! I’m sorry so so so many times I’m about ready to scream!

There were 10 dogs at the Project Wall the other day! 10 fucking dogs!!!

I like dogs! I used to have a dog that I simply loved. I understand having a dog. BUT, I don’t care to have dogs constantly brushing up against me, constantly walking over my stuff, constantly sniffing in my pack, constantly drooling over my lunch.

Yes, you’re sorry and that’s wonderful, but nothing ever happens after that.  I’ve gotten out of my car or approached the base of the route or walking down the road and a dog runs up to me and barks and barks and barks. I don’t know your dog, I don’t know that he’s friendly, and you standing 50 feet away saying don’t worry he’s friendly, he doesn’t bite, doesn’t really cut it!

Your dog needs to be in your control at all times! Most places your dog needs to be on a leash at all times!

I'm with you Mark, but you're shouting into the void.  If these people gave a shit, they wouldn't be doing what they're doing in the first place.

how do you feel about cats?

Just now, I’m camping in Rifle and I got out of the rig and the guys dog next-door came over and barked and barked and barked at me. He did the usual and so I just said to him. Hey man, I like dogs but this happens a lot and all I hear is I’m sorry. you have to respect my right to not be harassed by your dog. He was nice and put a leash on the dog, but that should be more of the rule than the exception. 

We've become a Petocracy. I saw someone who's dog was sitting on top of a table at an outdoor restaurant a couple of days ago. A few dummies wreck it for everyone.

This thread kinda gets there, but the real meat and potatoes isn’t that Dogs are a problem; 

most Dog Owners* are soft and lazy and need to crack the damn whip more often. If you’re reading this and feel attacked, yes, you’re probably the problem. Rule with an iron fist

Can someone tell Bruno about this thread?

almostradwrote:

This thread kinda gets there, but the real meat and potatoes isn’t that Dogs are a problem; 

most Dog Owners* are soft and lazy and need to crack the damn whip more often. If you’re reading this and feel attacked, yes, you’re probably the problem. Rule with an iron fist

Which means the only real solution is to just ban dogs. Like you would drones, Bluetooth, really anything that is "just the owner's problem". Which I say, then Bruno shows up post a picture of Luna and talks about how they have equal rights to human climbers, but then admits bringing Luna isn't fair to Luna because they can't really watch Luna while climbing. I bring up examples they get ignored and the knife guy comes in and ruins it with talking about shanking a dog because he's an Alpha family protector. 

The circle of a dog thread begins. 

IMHO, dogs need to stay away from the crag.  If you want your dog to be outdoors and enjoy being out, take them on a hike or take them to a park. Dogs sitting at the base of a crag while you climb is not engaging to them and it's a PIA for everyone else.  

Mark, there are a couple of problems here. 

One, leashes are required in Rifle. I know of a Czech climber who, in the late 90s, refused to put put his dog on a leash despite multiple citations. Well, when the ranger finally grew tired of his shit, he hauled him in, found that the climber overstayed his visa, and had him promptly deported.

The other problem is that Project wall is literally on the side of the road, and if there is one wall to have a dog on a leash, irrespective of leash laws, this is it.

Anyway, I’d never even entertain taking my dog to Project Wall if it is crowded, and she just hibernates at the base. 

Forget about dogs, there are way too many humans for rifle to be enjoyable anymore 

I’ve thought outside the box and kill two birds with one stone.   The crag skunk not only solves the annoying dog and dog owner problem, but tends to also thin out the line on popular routes.

Complaining on an internet forum is screaming into the void, and accomplishes nothing.  You have to publicly chastise these people bringing their unleashed or obnoxious dogs to the crag.  If enough of us start doing this, we can change the culture and put an end to this madness.  It's like voting.

Mark Hudonwrote:

Just now, I’m camping in Rifle and I got out of the rig and the guys dog next-door came over and barked and barked and barked at me. He did the usual and so I just said to him. Hey man, I like dogs but this happens a lot and all I hear is I’m sorry. you have to respect my right to not be harassed by your dog. He was nice and put a leash on the dog, but that should be more of the rule than the exception. 

Contact the HOA.

Here I am, as requested!  Picture of Luna below...went for a long mountain bike ride wirh her today, and she likes to cool down in the water troughs.  

@ Jordan...you almost had it right but you might have misconstrued one of my points from the past. 

You wrote, "...then admits bringing Luna isn't fair to Luna because they can't really watch Luna while climbing."  I stopped bringing Luna to the crag because it distresses her when we climb away from the ground, not because I was worried about watching her.  I dont' need to watch her--her behavior is unimpeachable.  

In all seriousness, Mark, I agree with you.  10 dogs at a crag is crazy, dogs should be on leash when and where required, and dogs that bark and bark at strangers should be controlled.

Bruno Schullwrote:

 and dogs that bark and bark at strangers should be controlled.

dogs that bark should never be at crags

Video of Mike Foley Sending Dreamcatcher while rando dog goes ballistic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SQZ1op2lOE

In the interest of taking this thread in a new direction, is there anything we can actually do about badly behaved dog owners and dogs at crags?

Maybe those above who say that engaing crag dogs owners in discussion and pointing out the errors of their ways is the only realistic thing we can do.

It's hard to immagine much else that is workable. 

Some crags will be in places with have leash laws, others not.  Where leash laws are in effect, law enforcement could issue citations, but where is the money/time/will to make that happen to any appreciable degree going to come from?  And where leash laws do no apply, there is no legal way to make people put their dogs on a leash.

I would suport FAR more extensive education and controls for people to own dogs in the first place, including ongoing check-ins to make sure dogs are not being abused, are healthy, are developing well socially with others dogs and humans, and so on, but again where is the money/time/will to make that happen?

I would also support somehting like a "climber's code" or a "climber's with dogs code" that is established and disseminated to help promote best practices.  

What else?  Any realistic ideas???

Mark Pilatewrote:

I’ve thought outside the box and kill two birds with one stone.   The crag skunk not only solves the annoying dog and dog owner problem, but tends to also thin out the line on popular routes.

Omgosh, I actually know someone with a pet skunk and while not at a crag, they brought it to the beach volleyball courts! The damn thing figured out how to UNZIP its carrier and ended up fully IN MY BAG eating my food. WtF. All she could say was how cute it was and was slightly annoyed that I didn’t love her skunk. SMH. Watch out they are coming for the crags. 

Mark, the attitude of climbers now is literally anything goes as long as they are having fun. In their eyes, you're just being a complainer and raining on the fun parade that is the Rifle scene. I couldn't believe how many dogs were coming up Mount Elbert when I did it last week. Ten miles up and down on a hot rockpile is not what the average dog is made for, nor is sitting around being bored while their owner shouts take for the 50th time. Good luck.

Bruno Schullwrote:

What else?  Any realistic ideas???

Don't bring your dog.  Climbing isn't a good activity for a dog to be there.  90% of dogs would be better of not being there.  Seems like more owners think it's an outdoor activity so it should be good for the dog.  It isn't because you hardly interact with the dog, and the dog just gets antsy and loud. 

It's like taking your dog dirt biking. The dog can't go with you so you can either let it bug everyone else or tie it down and let it bark while you drive away.  Just leave the dog home and take it for a hike or walk when you get back. 

Climbing is a selfish activity so anyone you bring who isn't climbing is going to need something they can do that doesn't bother everyone. This includes, kids, drone flyers, dogs, wives, bros, etc.  Almost always it's better to just leave them home.  

Dogs for the most part should be trained to be left home for a good while so it shouldn't be a big deal.

I know it's hard because we see videos of pros/dirt baggers with a scrappy dog that just sits there quietly in a youtube video.  Everyone thinks that's what it looks like with their dog. Reality is very different from that for the majority of dog and dog owners. 

Dogs need like 16 hours of sleep let them do it while you're climbing at home. Most won't sleep at the crag.

Also sorry I got the story wrong about Luna but still kind of the same point it is just better for the dog to not come.  

Complaining on an internet forum is screaming into the void, and accomplishes nothing.  You have to publicly chastise these people bringing their unleashed or obnoxious dogs to the crag.  If enough of us start doing this, we can change the culture and put an end to this madness.  

It might be bad luck, but this never worked for me, even with a very mild-mannered, polite approach: The owner ignores you or responds pretty aggressively.