New and experienced climbers over 50 # 25

oldfattradguuy kkwrote:

Here in idatucky many folks think driving 10 under the limit on 2 lane roads is acceptable this includes zones where it is impossible to pass.

A  native says the attitude is ‘ it’s so purdy, why should I go any faster”

Hard to get used to coming from Utah where the natives go 10-15 over and are some of the most aggressive, obnoxious drivers I’ve ever seen,  

We have almost nothing BUT 2 lane roads. One freeway across southern Idaho, a spur off that headed to Ootah, that's it. Whatever the north has. That might as well be France, as likely as any of us would be to drive there, so I can't actually tell you if there's a freeway up there. If so, again, it's just crossing the state.

If city streets are ignored, it might be an even bet that we have more unpaved roads than paved.

I'm looking at unpaved right now, outside our lodging at COR. This is back to Boise day. Rope gun is asleep, so this good belayer is letting him be. It's only 3.5 hour drive, so doesn't much matter.

The cottontails are out now, really cute, tiny tiny bunnies! They'll pop around for a bit, then disappear. Then the marmots wake up. They'll waddle around in the morning, disappear most of the day, then show up in the evening. They graze the mowed lawn here in the state park. Must be about 20 of them. 

Some years there's a fair crowd of deer, too, but they might be heading higher now. They were everywhere in June.

This is the wall that has 2 newly bolted routes. The 2 easy routes let a lead get a rope up, then the whole middle section is open for top ropers. Mussy hooks to lower off. Before, it was hike up and around, and come up with whatever, to set up top ropes. There's lots of easy (and fun) climbing, so a nice place for families and small groups. Now, it's less dangerous, and a good addition, imo. COR doesn't actually have all that much bolted stuff in the easy grades. If you look carefully, there's a yellow blob on the wall....

Even my rope gun couldn't resist some playtime on top rope, before we decided it was time for ice cream!

Best, Helen

EDIT to add, I'll be back here again in early August. For now, though, and nothing whatever to do with COR, I will be glad to be back home, and looking forward to just hunkering in to domesticity for awhile. 

I'm a courteous driver but I tend to go fast. In cities or in traffic I'll stay within 5 mph of the speed limit. Using the number one lane for passing only goes away with heavy traffic even in Europe.  

I'm curious what others are finding to be their biggest limiting factor as they get older (and how that factor evolves with time). For me it appears to be flexibility and ROM. I'm 62 and have done a fair number of V4s and even a few V5s in the last year but a V1 that requires good hip flexibility can give me fits. I didn't stretch regularly when I was younger but I do now. It seems to have slowed the decline but I'm wondering if it's possible to stop it completely or even reverse it at my age.

Emil Briggswrote:

I'm curious what others are finding to be their biggest limiting factor as they get older (and how that factor evolves with time). For me it appears to be flexibility and ROM

For me my biggest limiting factor is recovery time needed to climb optimally. I still have pretty good strength and endurance. I don’t find that limiting. At my peak, I could climb 5-6 days in a row of routes at my limit. Now, I really do best with two days on, two days off.
I think you can improve on the flexibility and ROM. It just takes a lot of hours, in my experience. I have to do my stretching routine every other day, optimally. If I don’t, I notice it. And it takes me 30-60 min so it is a time commitment. 

Decreased response to training stimulus, greater need for rest and recovery, and yes, flexibility. A well known “training expert,” don’t remember who, said that you need a day of stretching for each decade of your life, and that after fifty it becomes a full time job. So, here we are…

Emil Briggswrote:

I'm curious what others are finding to be their biggest limiting factor as they get older (and how that factor evolves with time).

For me it is arthritic joints, either loss of cartilage or bone spurs.  Stretching helps but ultimately the joints determine what I can get away with.

phylp phylpwrote:

For me my biggest limiting factor is recovery time needed to climb optimally. I still have pretty good strength and endurance. I don’t find that limiting. At my peak, I could climb 5-6 days in a row of routes at my limit. Now, I really do best with two days on, two days off.
I think you can improve on the flexibility and ROM. It just takes a lot of hours, in my experience. I have to do my stretching routine every other day, optimally. If I don’t, I notice it. And it takes me 30-60 min so it is a time commitment. 

Yes recovery is an issue for me too but I'm still working full time and rarely have enough free time to be able to climb more than 2-3 days a week. I do notice it on vacation though if I try to climb every day for a week.

Frank Steinwrote:

Decreased response to training stimulus, greater need for rest and recovery, and yes, flexibility. A well known “training expert,” don’t remember who, said that you need a day of stretching for each decade of your life, and that after fifty it becomes a full time job. So, here we are…

Hmm. Sounds like maybe I need to retire from my regular full time job!

Emil Briggswrote:

Hmm. Sounds like maybe I need to retire from my regular full time job!

Tempting, isn’t it?

Emil Briggswrote:

I'm curious what others are finding to be their biggest limiting factor as they get older (and how that factor evolves with time). For me it appears to be flexibility and ROM. I'm 62 and have done a fair number of V4s and even a few V5s in the last year but a V1 that requires good hip flexibility can give me fits. I didn't stretch regularly when I was younger but I do now. It seems to have slowed the decline but I'm wondering if it's possible to stop it completely or even reverse it at my age.

Yes, flexibility and a soft brain, LOL. I’m working on flexibility just by pushing myself, mainly to do high steps and push off of that bent knee (my knees are fucked). In regards to the soft brain, I hate falling, even on a boulder indoors. I’m getting much more confident leading my telling myself I’m safe, I have a good belayer, I trust my gear, I consider the consequences of a fall, etc. 

Picture Interstate 5 between Tracy and the Grapevine. 2 lanes tons of trucks tons of cars for two hundred miles. The autobahn it aint.

Sorry a day late with this. I went climbing. Yes stretch and rest is good. My tomatoes are tardy.

Thank you so much for all your comments on driving. Jan, you’d get on great with Tony. I relate most to Phylp.  We did use this situation to talk – – “communicate“ a little better. It turns out it wasn’t what lane I was driving in but something else entirely that was bothering him and that just goes to show that sometimes you have to work a little harder at talking.

I got a warning from some gardening neighbors that I might want to harvest all the tomatoes before they overheat and split so I got almost all of them picked. There’s one bush left that’s really thriving. Today we made apricot jam and I did buy some fresh poblano chilies so one day this week I will try again to roast them and skin them.

Speaking of stretching, I just ordered a video series by yoga body for basic stretching but what I want to do is get my hip flexors to stretch out and there is another whole series on just opening the hips. When I thought about what I could most easily do to improve my climbing I thought about those hip flexors and how handy it would be to open into a true plié on tiny thin edges on steep slab.

Alan Rubinwrote:

It does vary from state-to-state, Lori. On highways here in MA, Tony is technically correct, the left lane is considered to be a passing lane, not a traveling lane. If 3 lanes, rightmost is for slower traffic, center for regular traffic, and left is for passing ( not many places here have more than 3 lanes). In reality, the left lane for passing only is rarely enforced. (good stuff about "how the man works to keep you down..." snipped out for brevity.)

I am sure Alan R pretty much knows everything there is to know about Massachusetts law.  (An aside: If I got into trouble in Mass., I'd want him as my attorney...)

That said:

From my observation, it's perfectly legal to drive in the extreme left lane, 10 mph under the speed limit as long as you have your left turn signal on....  

In Massachusetts , no jury "of youse peers..." would convict you.

ed "they're not called 'MassHoles" for nothing..." e

ps. I've been busy and missed the July 4th celebration here... We're a day late but here's what we have:

Scout says: "The Flag isn't owned only by 'right-wing nutcases.."' it belongs to all of us..."

Lori Milaswrote:

Speaking of stretching, I just ordered a video series by yoga body for basic stretching but what I want to do is get my hip flexors to stretch out and there is another whole series on just opening the hips. When I thought about what I could most easily do to improve my climbing I thought about those hip flexors and how handy it would be to open into a true plié on tiny thin edges on steep slab.

That won't be as helpful as you think.  I am just about the tightest put together person alive and have about 20 degrees of hip flex but can climb thin face with the best of them.  I've never found it useful to be able to plie while on route.  What is useful is to be able to imagine!  Imagine that!!!

I actually had a CDL, to drive the old (and heavy) Bluebird bus that was our library bookmobile. So, I'm conscious of, kindly, and courteous to, the true truck drivers out there.

But geez. 

What's with trucks deciding they just have to get in the left lane going 3mph faster than the truck in the right lane, and holding up all the rest of us who would be going faster than either? 

I get it if there's a hill or something, but just in normal flat driving?? They just hafta pass so they can be in front of one truck and behind some other truck?

Today was the drive back, only 3.5 hours, but it was a lonnnggg drive this time. Usually it thins out in some stretches, and I can at least use cruise control a bit. Not today.

Plus construction. From 80mph speed limit, stuck at 65. Slowed to 40. Single lane with opposing traffic right beside. 

Still, not the worst drive.

That award always goes to weather, and I've done this one in huge thunderstorms, and in flat out close to whiteout blizzard. That time, the trucks and I all settled in ONE lane, the one that was easiest to find. All following each other, no passing, lots of careful on your toes driving.

Back home, all looked good outside! I picked a double, triple handful of orange cherry tomatoes, sungold most likely. I'd take a pic, but, well, if you've grown sungolds you understand they don't always make it to the house.

Wordle defeated me a couple times recently. It's strange to have pretty much the whole thing.....but that one letter the brain just isn't even seeing.

But, I've also been functioning ish on short sleep, so there's that, lol!

Best, H.

EDIT to add, inexplicably, I'm climbing well these last times out. Which is odd, since I've climbed very little, and only got older and heavier and less fit since the fall surgery, but, most definitely moving much easier. Can it really be all just being able to actually be vertical?? See my feet without shenanigans?   

ed esmondwrote:

I am sure Alan R pretty much knows everything there is to know about Massachusetts law.  (An aside: If I got into trouble in Mass., I'd want him as my attorney...)

That said:

From my observation, it's perfectly legal to drive in the extreme left lane, 10 mph under the speed limit as long as you have your left turn signal on....  

In Massachusetts , no jury "of youse peers..." would convict you.

ed "they're not called 'MassHoles" for nothing..." e

ps. I've been busy and missed the July 4th celebration here... We're a day late but here's what we have:

Scout says: "The Flag isn't owned only by 'right-wing nutcases.."' it belongs to all of us..."

Hi Ed, It has been a long time….

There is a difference between something being ‘common practice’ and it being legal. It is amazing how many potential ( but rarely enforced) violations are listed in the MA Motor Vehicle Code ( I’m sure this is true in all states).

Also, there is no right to a jury trial for motor vehicle infractions. Contested tickets are initially adjudicated by a clerk-magistrate, with a possible appeal to a judge. Even if the Court gives a driver a break, in certain circumstances the Registry of Motor Vehicles can still act administratively and revoke a driver’s license.

Now you know!!!!

Jan Mcwrote:

That won't be as helpful as you think.  I am just about the tightest put together person alive and have about 20 degrees of hip flex but can climb thin face with the best of them.  I've never found it useful to be able to plie while on route.  What is useful is to be able to imagine!  Imagine that!!!

Oh man, these words just put me into flight!    You have said this before and I believe so has Kris. If I could just carry this with me whenever I climb, wherever I climb! I have often said to Bob “this feels like magic. I shouldn’t be doing this“. Not so much on featured face climbing, but very much on thin face—tiny edges and divots, barely there crimps.

In fact, this sends me into a realm I love – – of mind and spirit. At this age, most of climbing should be off the table. But when you override that and let intention or will take over some amazing things happen. I believe the body cooperates with what you see in your mind.

And yet, I have watched a good friend climb some steep face climbs and he looks like a frog on the wall.  He can glue himself to the wall because he’s literally climbing from a 2nd position turnout—knees splayed, strong lift from that position.  Since I have lost that ballet flexibility I climb toe in or hip in because my knees get in my way (so butt more out sometimes) 

I hope you won’t mind if we continue to talk about this. It’s a part of climbing that seems totally ignored (belief, imagination, intention) in favor of bigger, stronger muscles or more technique.

Don't let Jan fool you he has excellent technique & he is strong. He is also the least flexible climber I know. 

Climbing is 95% mental & 50% psychological. 

For me at this point in life, those numbers are about right for getting out of bed. Once I'm up and going it's all downhill from there. 

As Yogi said, "Half this game is 90% mental."

Jan Mcwrote:

That won't be as helpful as you think.  I am just about the tightest put together person alive and have about 20 degrees of hip flex but can climb thin face with the best of them.  I've never found it useful to be able to plie while on route.  What is useful is to be able to imagine!  Imagine that!!!

Jan is an outlier. The great majority of top climbers are flexible. 

But watch out for any Yoga program or teacher that pushes for "hyper-mobility." More flexibility is not better flexibility. A balanced range of motion with stability is the recipe for success. This is doubly true for shoulders, and triply true as we age. I've logged a lot of hours in Yoga and Pilates work, and in my experience Pilates offers a far better training mode for climbers than most Yoga practices. Not all Yoga practices by any means, but there are far to many out there for whom extreme mobility of the joints is some sort of holy grail, and when you take that approach and apply it to something like climbing, where you are going to really load up on your shoulders and hips, injury awaits.

Laeger is the only climber I've seen who can really use extreme turnout to his advantage. In most cases keeping your heels out away from the rock helps. For example, on a climb like the steep one you just posted on FB, even though the footholds are big, you can get a little advantage by tip-toeing on them with your toes on the edge of the hold, as if they were smaller. You'll gain a slight advantage against the steepness with your feet/heels further out.