New and experienced climbers over 50 # 25

It does vary from state-to-state, Lori. On highways here in MA, Tony is technically correct, the left lane is considered to be a passing lane, not a traveling lane. If 3 lanes, rightmost is for slower traffic, center for regular traffic, and left is for passing ( not many places here have more than 3 lanes). In reality, the left lane for passing only is rarely enforced ( most of the time on the major highways all 3 lanes are equally busy—Sunday I traveled back from a climbing gym in CT—about an hour away—about 80% of the time I was in the left lane), however it provides the cops with a good excuse to pull over someone they are suspicious of, especially late at night when the roads aren’t busy. I had multiple cases where someone was supposedly pulled over for traveling in the left lane when not passing that escalated into drug busts. The traffic code is full of little ‘traps’ the cops use to stop people without admitting that they are ‘profiling’.  End of tirade, but Tony is technically correct, at least around here.

Thank you Alan. I posted my question and then deleted it because I felt petty. But on further reflection it’s a problem if we cannot drive peaceably in the same car. I’ve just never encountered a situation where driving with someone produced so much angst.
So to recap… Tony prides himself on his 35 years as a truck driver in and around Chicago with 5 million accident-free miles. So I concede that makes him the expert.
Wth five or six lanes on an open freeway (today the 10 Fwy) I may pick the third or fourth lane and just stay there, if driving a long distance. If someone moves up behind me, I will get right over so they can pass. Tony prefers to stay in the right lane (or two) and pass vehicles to the left if he wants to go faster, which means a whole lot of passing, punching the gas and hitting the brakes.

On the two lane Highway heading from Yucca Valley to Palm Springs if there is no one on the road, I may stay in the left-hand lane because inevitably there are garlic trucks and slow drivers ahead on the right. So that is anathema to Tony and he swears if I did this in any other state, I would be ticketed. So to avoid him being uncomfortable, I just stayed in the far right hand lane the entire way to Palm Desert, which was painfully slow to me.

I think it has a lot to do with just our individual vibes. I don’t want to have to clutch the seat or think about eminent death when I am in the car— I just wanna enjoy the ride—pick a lane and go with the flow as long as traffic is moving. He wants to get wherever Point A to Point B as fast as humanly possible, and he gets pretty pissed off when people are not lining up for that. So it can get pretty tense in the car when he’s unhappy with the people in front of him. I hate to stop going places with him, but I may have to really think ahead of time if I am up for conflict. 

Where I live three lanes is the max, with the LH lane pretty much ‘reserved’ for trucks.  Generally, heading across country you have a max of two lanes. Our max speed limit is 100 or 110 (depending on the state, 110 in South Australia, 100 in Victoria for instance). Most times I’m happy to sit behind someone doing 90 rather than overtaking. I’ll generally overtake only where there’s an overtaking lane (that is, a lane added for a few hundred metres just for overtaking). Most accidents happen on the open road while overtaking or people drifting across the middle line. It’s amazing that EVEN if you’re doing the speed limit people still want to overtake you, to go faster than the speed limit. Driving in Australia is quite safe generally. 

I didn't read your post Lori, but I wish there was a public education program, and enforcement in the US, to remind drivers why they should leave the left lane for passing ONLY.  If the internet worked the way the freeways and roads do in the US, packets would be held up similar to how US freeways are slowed by clued out drivers. Drivers staying in the left lane also make the roads more dangerous, since other drivers then try to pass on the right. I'm looking forward to self-driving cars, as I'm sure they will reduce traffic congestion. I'm convinced they will drive better, and less distracted, than at least 80% of the population.

American drivers need to see how the autobahn in Germany works, where there is no speed limit. No one stays in the left lane for any longer than it takes to get by the vehicle they are passing. Then they immediately get back into a right lane.

/End of rant :-)

In California it seems that the speed limit has become a mere suggestion -- particularly post pandemic. Even though the maximum speed on highways might be 70 mph (or 65 in many areas), people regularly drive 75 or 80 mph. You feel like you will get run over for driving even 70. Then there are the people whom seem to think everyone should just get out of their way, as they hit 90 mph or more.

In the US, especially, but not exclusively, on the highways, it seems that the speed limit is the ‘bottom line’, with most people ( admittedly, myself included) routinely driving above whatever the limit is. On the highways, the cops rarely enforce the speed limit ( usually ‘giving’ a 5-10 mph over the limit ‘cushion’ before ticketing someone), unless they are otherwise suspicious of the occupants and need an excuse to pull them over.

From what I recall being told during my visit to Australia, enforcement of the speed limit there is much more strict and the penalties are quite draconian. There is considerable use of remote ( camera and sensor) enforcement ( very rare in the US and would result in a major public outcry if implemented) with tickets then being mailed to the registered owner’s address ( under US law unlikely they could prove that the registered owner was driving at the time—different in OZ?), and the tickets themselves are very expensive—and only a very few such tickets can lead to loss of license. ( My friend told me of reports—perhaps apocryphal—of people returning home from extended driving trips to find that they owed hundreds of dollars and had lost their licenses ). But even if that information is only partly accurate, I can understand your desire to stick to the speed limit, Carl.

Lori I wish we had some context….
Personally I get very nervous when I’m a passenger in a car that’s stuck in the left lane. Cars passing by on the right is - well dangerous and one is being a complete dickhead IMHO.
I learned how to drive in Germany. Yes you can drive as fast as is safe, if you pass someone on the right you’ll probably will get a ticket. Drive in the left lane without pulling back to the right lane will get you a big ticket. It’s the best way to drive. Had this discussion with many folks and their fall back position is “I’ll be going back n forth from lane to lane…” 

Driving in America is incredibly unsafe, especially in California. The DMV and Highway Patrol do not teach anything anymore. Driving on I5 is a great example. You get the Trucks going 70-75 in the right lane, the left lane will have 10-15 cars stacked up with no room between them getting held up by someone who is going the speed of the trucks- maybe 3-4 mph faster. This makes the drivers who want to go faster jump to the right- go way fast- in an effort to get by the slow moron- close up with the trucks quickly and at the last second swing back into the left lane- get past the Trucks- go back right and stand on it. It’s kinda like the Daytona 500 except it’s dangerous as hell because some clueless person, who doesn’t think about their driving and is just doddering along at varying speed thinking about wordle or yakking on the phone, will do something completely unexpected  at the exact wrong time.
Sounds like Tony enjoyed his drive. I like driving with the truckers on the highway- they know the rules and customs- things like flashing your lights on n off when the ass end of their trailer is clear of your nose. Quickly getting back to the right when it’s clear.
One last thing: The style of German driving is what is used in endurance sports car racing. With different speeds between cars- some going 300kph and some only going 175- everyone following the same rules- mainly staying to the right and not passing on the right- makes the racing work safely.

Edit- Carl is that kph or mph? 

Here in CO it's generally 2 or 3 lanes (maybe 4 on stretches of I-25). If more than 2 lanes (I-25 or I-70), I'll generally drive in a middle lane. If 2 lanes (36), I drive on the right, except for passing or sometimes pulling into the left lane to allow entering cars room to merge. What drives me nuts are roads where the right lane keeps disappearing on short notice. (I'm looking at you, Diagonal.)  

SOP: keep right except to pass. Amazing how many morons got a license to drive but didn't grasp this fundamental. Then there are the very important assholes who know but ignore it because their convenience is more important than anything else.

Guy, the context is that on the grade driving down the 62 (two lanes) towards Palm Springs I was driving more in the left lane than the right when the road was completely empty. If anyone had been coming behind me, I would have moved right.  But to stay in that right lane, given all the slow moving vehicles, was frustrating.  I wound up following a cement truck for 10 miles while cars to the left whizzed by.

When we got onto the 10, with 5-6 open lanes, I WOULD HAVE driven in the 3rd or 4th lane for the duration.  I would never be driving in the far left lane except to pass.      

I think Tony would have made a great race car driver.  He likes some adrenaline.  I think he also enjoys getting pissed off at other drivers... kind of an Italian thing, maybe?  So he made it to Chicago in 2 days, and back in 2 days.  He does love open roads (so do I).  But I probably would have wanted to stop along the way, check out the taco stands, see what was up with Utah.  He wanted to get to Chicago.  In fact, the hotel I booked for him, he arrived at 7pm and bailed at 4am, without breakfast.  He just wanted to get there.  I would have enjoyed a 7 day trip.  I've never seen Nebraska.

Different strokes.  But he did acknowledge that he ruined my morning and apologized... the 4th is my favorite day of the year.  I am missing my family.  Missing my kids, and missing my kid. Maybe it's just a bum day.    Sometimes it's hard to tell who's having a bad mood. 

Speaking of dogs   ...  I cannot believe I am missing that little shit of Mallory's, "Bunny". Her little dance kind of brightened up my days. I had forgotten how much of a companion a dog can be.  I think Tony and I are agreed that it's time for us to add a dog to our family.  Over the years I had 2 border collies, and 2 pomeranians.  The Borders are too big for this area, I think... I know they need to work, run, chase every day.  The poms were wonderful, except the last one I adopted was SO ill... blind, incontinent, deaf, all its legs had been broken at one time or another.  It wasn't her fault, but I just couldn't be the mom I wanted to be to this poor creature.  I took care of her for 3-4 years until it was her time to go, but I never felt the love I should have.  So... no maimed or crippled animals right now.  Tony had a maltipoo which he loved dearly.  I was hoping we could just keep an eye on the shelters until the right dog called to us but so far, I'm only seeing German Shepherds and Pit Bulls at the shelters.  None of those... and no chihuahuas. 

This was Gidget.  At the time, Tupac was her favorite rapper.    

 In other words, I'd love dog suggestions.    

"I've never seen Nebraska." Lori, Nebraska gives meaning to the term "flyover country."

Happy 4th of July to all the over 50 climbers!

El Cap Tower, Nose Route, 1983

PS. My very first first ascent at Joshua Tree was named Fast Lane.

The narrow road to Palm Springs is kinda scary…

Good get up Bob!

Happy 4th all. 

A couple of years ago I bought a new Subaru Crosstrek.  It has adaptive cruise control and the wonderful side mirror lights that flash to tell you when it's unsafe to pass.  Typically on the highway I get on the highway, take it up to 68 mph, and then get in the right lane and let it slow me down and speed me up as needed.  If I become aware that I'm really slowing down, like to 55 or so, I pass when the lack of flashing lights tell me it's safe to move into the left lane.  I love it! No worries about blind spots or turning my arthritic neck.   I'm frequently listen to a book on audio in my car and, as a retired person,  I'm not in any hurry.  So sometimes I'll go for miles before I realize that I'm following a truck at 55.  When you calculate the number of minutes you gain or lose by going ten mph faster or slower over any distance less than 100 miles, it's so small a delta as to be silly.  What's the hurry!  Enjoy your book and relax! Have a good conversation if there is somebody else there.

I just did the 1600+ miles to Idaho and back by myself in my RV-Van.  That one doesn't have the adaptive cruise control, just regular, and the cruise control turns itself off when you get hit with a strong crosswind.  Which happened a lot on the drive home. That was pretty tiring driving.  The speed limit on those roads is between 70 and 80.  On the 80 mph roads, I tried to keep at 70 minimum (truck speed) so as not to create a slow hazard! 

Phylp, your comment regarding retired people is spot on. What's the hurry?

I will admit I'm not a fan of the newer "self driving" technology. But I'll give the left laner's their due. If not passing stay to the left.

Bob Gaineswrote:

Happy 4th of July to all the over 50 climbers!

El Cap Tower, Nose Route, 1983

PS. My very first first ascent at Joshua Tree was named Fast Lane.

Love those Fires!

I'm a lot like Tony except that I am not welded to one particular lane.  I am pretty relentless at going fast.  I will generally sit in whatever lane is going fastest.  If on a two line highway and both lanes are relatively empty I will drive the right lane but I am not at all bashful about moving left and passing anyone going slower than me.  Generally, if in a 70 mph zone I will be doing almost 80.  In a 65 I will be doing almost 75.  However, I have been known to also go 90 for long periods and over 100 whenever I feel it is safe (both from other cars and from the popo). But then I have also been clocked at almost 100 in a 35 mph canyon!  I think the two things that make me safe though is that for me driving is always a full attention event, and the faster I am going the more attentive I am.  And I drive a car perfectly capable of whatever I ask of it.  I just wish all you old retired folks who are never in any hurry would just stay the f*ck out of the way!!!

Gym climbing (TRing) tonight. I tried to make it interesting by suggesting we try every single route, regardless of grade.
We started at the first route and just went right to left.
Only made it about half way, as a scout group came and took up a lot of the routes. Below is the grade numbers (in the Aust grading system). A grade with a ‘x’. next to it means I failed on it…

I’m going to be sore tomorrow.  

15. 17. 18. 19. 17. 22.x. 17. 20x . 16. 18. 13. 20. 15. 29x. 22x. 24x. 25x. 21x. 17. 15.

I  just did about 1000 miles on I-5 between LA and SF, on that stretch the trucks pretty much own the right lane and the cars own the left. Most cars that weren't doing 10+mph over the speed limit would move over between trucks to let you pass, occasionally someone would ignore the line of cars building behind them and thats when the road got dangerous quickly with folks passing any way they could on the right.

I gotta say, LA traffic is quite special. I've never seen so many backups at noon and so many race car drivers who weave in and out of the slow moving cars just to get five cars ahead. Especially after the backups, 30mph to 100mph is a common sight there.

I appreciate living in the boondocks, I feel like the less time I spend in crap traffic really helps my psyche plus its more time in the hills.

Here in idatucky many folks think driving 10 under the limit on 2 lane roads is acceptable this includes zones where it is impossible to pass.

A  native says the attitude is ‘ it’s so purdy, why should I go any faster”

Hard to get used to coming from Utah where the natives go 10-15 over and are some of the most aggressive, obnoxious drivers I’ve ever seen,