When wealthy adventurers take huge risks, who should pay for rescue attempts?

Tradibanwrote:

Going Sunday actually, how bout you?

Pics or it didn't happen.  

Tradiban wrote:

Only if you promise it will brighten your day.

So you’re not heading out? That’s a pity.

Not at all. I’m heading out in three minutes. I’m just not sharing the details with the forum. 

I’m sure everyone is tired of us love birds so lets get back to the question at hand:

Should “wealthy” adventures have to buy insurance to cover the full cost of their rescues??

Living in the US and you have time and means to climb, you're wealthy when it comes to World standards.

You have to read the fine print with travel insurance and climbing riders for life insurance too, and do not lie on your application. I once answered a very thorough one (it was for a high-payout term life policy) - it asked about big walls, # of nights on the wall, sort of gear, first ascents or not, backcountry and wilderness, on and on, dozens of questions. It was clear this questionnaire had been prepped by experienced climbers. I answered them all with the absolute truth at the time (this was a long time ago). At the end of the day, the rider was attached to my life insurance at no additional charge. Agent told me high altitude climbing would have been denied.

Thanks for reply Jimmy.

Long Rangerwrote:

It's all just lawyer tactics. A defense will do anything in their power to get the best outcome for their client. Insurance companies just know they're the ones who write the rules and also the ones who may need to follow them. But they can make those rules favor themselves and be opaque to anyone other than themselves and an actual expert. It's disgusting that they needed to have their reputation of all things tarnished for them to do the actual correct human thing.  

Man I'm salty.

Yes, and it's even worse as insurance will always play the numbers to the very end even when they do pay out. If they can stall, stop, and negotiate even $1000 less on every claim, that's millions they didn't have to pay. One of the times I got hit by a car when the car was completely in my (oncoming) lane their insurance tried all the tricks (many of which are enumerated here). It went to voluntary arbitration before trial and we settled for literally 1% less than what was initially demanded. As mad as it makes you, it's nothing personal... it's just all in a days work for insurance lawyers because it's pennies to the plaintiffs but all those pennies do add up.

Devin Hanes wrote:

You gonna pull over a submarine in International waters to see proof of insurance?

Don’t have jurisdiction for that.

An adventurer in international waters would need to have a private rescue crew on standby, or risk having no rescue at all.

Insurance could be required in national parks, state parks, public land, etc. For example to obtain a permit to climb El Cap proof of insurance could be required or perhaps some sort of membership fee with YOSAR

Long Rangerwrote:

Living in the US and you have time and means to climb, you're wealthy when it comes to World standards.

[...off to update my dating profile to "Extremely Wealthy"...]

Devin Hanes wrote:

There's actually millenia old tradition that if a sea vessel is under distress the closest vessels come to aid. Free of charge by the way, and universally recognized. I know of a sailboat that had a container ship drop cans of diesel off for them 

How quaint.

Tradibanwrote:

How quaint.

aren't you famous for giving out beers to anyone that asks for them on top of the climb?

Long Rangerwrote:

aren't you famous for giving out ubeers to anyone that asks for them on top of the climb?

Only if they swear allegiance to The Tradiban.

Cherokee Nuneswrote:

I have far less sympathy for the Convenience Rescues that seem to be becoming more common, like the children that called for a rescue in Redrocks earlier this year because it was getting dark. BILL THOSE ASSHOLES, DOUBLE TIME.

Rescue fees should not be means-tested. I am ok with idiot-testing.... if determined to be idiot, the bill is rendered.

I totally agree with this. But I do understand that rescuers prefer to be called out early before things are truly critical. Last winter some idiot followed my tracks somewhere in northern Vermont. He didn’t get very far before he realized he had made a serious mistake, and called SAR. And they were able to easily get to him in the daylight and get him out and have a vehicle waiting at the bottom. It was an easy mission for them as opposed to what would’ve happened if he had gotten  benighted somewhere in the woods. 

First of all, the income status of the person being rescued shouldn't have anything to do with the conversation.  Rich people take risks, poor people take risks.  The decisions that lead to the incident are what should be considered.  

I honestly think that local search and rescue agencies (SAR, Fish and Game, Local Sheriff, Local Fire) should run any rescue operation, with National Guard, and any specialized military branch needed as back up (Navy, Space Force whatever.  Because you know one of these "commercial" space flights is going to turn into Apollo 13 at some point), and then taking over depending to the circumstances of the event.  All this simply because these are excellent training exercises in interagency organization and communication, for when there is an actual MCI (Mass Casualty Incident, ie. School Shooting, plane crash, apartment fire, hazardous material leak, etc.).  

Rescues obviously range from simple (lost hiker) to extremely complex (Dudes using a Play Station controller to drive a submarine to the Titanic), but all are good training for the agencies involved.  I personally think any standing military force should also serve as a world class search and rescue team with near limitless resources, during peace time.

If the US Air Force can't locate a missing pilot in NV, it doesn't give you much confidence they'd be able to locate one of their own pilots downed behind enemy lines.  So might as well search for the guy in NV as training.  If the US Navy can't get that Play Station controller back from the Titanic, doesn't give you a lot of confidence they'd be able to rescue the sailors aboard their own Submarine that has lost power, and is stuck at the bottom of the ocean.  Good practice retrieving that Play Station controller (I guess it turns out it was a good practice using their top secret underwater listening device).

As far as billing people for rescue, I'm in favor of billing up to $5,000 if the person being rescued is not injured.  Not that it would come close to covering costs, just punitive if you were a dipsh!t. 

If I had to pay for my ambulance ride after a hit and run, why doesn't a rich person have to pay their ambulance when they make a bad judgement call?  

Rob Dwrote:

If I had to pay for my ambulance ride after a hit and run, why doesn't a rich person have to pay their ambulance when they make a bad judgement call?  

If you're in an ambulance, you've already been found and rescued, so a little beyond the pale of your rhetorical question.

Chad Millerwrote:

Pics or it didn't happen.  

Rob Dwrote:

If I had to pay for my ambulance ride after a hit and run, why doesn't a rich person have to pay their ambulance when they make a bad judgement call?  

If, during the course of your SAR, you are flown out in a typical air ambulance scenario, don't fret about all this class warfare stuff.  Instead, rest easy knowing that you and the hypothetical rich person would both be sent a bill for the flight.

Jason ELwrote:

If, during the course of your SAR, you are flown out in a typical air ambulance scenario, don't fret about all this class warfare stuff.  Instead, rest easy knowing that you and the hypothetical rich person would both be sent a bill for the flight.

Actually, not everywhere. Here in Salt Lake County air evacs are not charged - they're considered training missions. Same in Summit, Grand, and Washington Counties, UT.

A society that does not care for its lost, sick and injured is not much of a society.