Is moderate climbing 'climbed out'?

When was the last time a good 5.8-5.11 went up in your area that didn't involve a previously closed crag being opened to the public? Is that the only way for new (high quality) moderate climbing to be developed/discovered? It seems the only new routes under 5.12 that I see are of 3 forms:

- mediocre climbs that were either previously deemed too low quality to develop, or the entire cliff was overlooked due to an unappealing nature (too slabby, too flaky, too manky, too short, too ledgy, etc)

- routes/areas that are so heinous to get to that nobody has bothered in the past to develop them (or, at least, to record them). Maybe the route is ok but the ROI on getting there just isn't worth it (or, wasn't worth it when the good crags were less crowded and polished)

- routes/areas that were previously closed to climbing but are now openly published

If not, prove me wrong: what's the best climb in your area that's been put up in the last 2-3 years on a cliff that didn't just become publicly available?

Just finished this route last summer on one of the most iconic walls in RMNP

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/121327993/the-kingfisher

Just a thought, but 2/3 of your bullet points are subjective. As discussed time after time here “one mans choss fest is another mans glory.” Also what you may consider a “heinous approach” I might totally enjoy and consider part of the adventure...”climbed out” is a matter of perspective. 

5.11’s are not moderates

Seems like in recent years the New River Gorge has seen tons of development in the moderate range. 

The same is true in the Adirondacks-- whole cliffs and areas with many moderates.

SethG wrote:

The same is true in the Adirondacks-- whole cliffs and areas with many moderates.

But have you climbed them?

If a few 2-3 star 5.10s get climbed in a forest, but it's a 5hr drive and 1-2hr hike to get there, does it make a sound?

In this era of instafame and global surveillance you'd do well to keep your new moderates to yourself. Keep them secret, keep them safe. 

Top Roper wrote:

5.11’s are not moderates

No, they are called warmups (at least when cragging). However, you can argue that a long, traditional 5.11+ in an alpine environment (used as an example by an above poster) may not moderate. 

MattH wrote:

But have you climbed them?

If a few 2-3 star 5.10s get climbed in a forest, but it's a 5hr drive and 1-2hr hike to get there, does it make a sound?

I'm thinking of places like Crane Mountain or Shelving Rock. 

I can think of several dozen quality routes in that range that have gone up near me in the last decade

MattH wrote:

But have you climbed them?

If a few 2-3 star 5.10s get climbed in a forest, but it's a 5hr drive and 1-2hr hike to get there, does it make a sound?

That is adding some additional criteria to your original ones. A 5 hour drive for some, could be 15 minutes for others. Especially when you are discussing a ‘destination’ area such as the New ( though there are, of course, locals and near locals there as well), the length of the drive to get there is basically irrelevant. And, as someone else said above, a one to 2 hour hike could well be enjoyable not heinous for many/some. Additionally, your original criteria was “good” routes, not “popular” or frequently climbed ones.

But, fundamentally, you are still correct that in most established areas, especially in or near heavily populated regions, the ‘low hanging fruit’ was picked long ago—not exactly a surprise development. However, even here in southern New England we are still finding some enjoyable ‘moderates’ ( and, being an old man, I, too, don’t consider 5.11 to be moderate) even at popular crags—their ‘quality’ though is, as always, in the ‘eye of the beholder’.

Re: 5.11 not being moderate, I was thinking of 5.11 sport. I'll agree that a 5.11+ trad multipitch in the alpine with a 5+ mile, 3k vert approach is outside that definition in more ways than one. The route looks awesome, though!

Here's my thought process/motivation for posting: over time, every popular route gets polished and caked in chalk, gradually reducing its quality until it's no longer very fun to climb at all. If the vast majority of this 'classic-degrading' traffic has happened in the last 10-20 years, and the popularity of climbing continues growing (or at least maintains its current level), then the only hope for the longevity of fun climbing is for a continual stream of neo-classics to supplant the former-classics whose glory has faded. 

At some point we'll burn through all the good routes with easy access and be left with the scraps of former generations. Sure, we'll be able to climb 2* routes forever, but where's the replacement for something like Huecos Rancheros once every hold has an inch thick coating of chalk?

The RRG is a great example of this - the classics of the 90s/early 2000s have been largely replaced by newer, less polished routes, but not all areas have an endless supply of routes waiting to be bolted. Hence my question. How does your local area fare, and what's its prognosis for the next 20-40 years?

Have you climbed all the accessible routes in your grade range? What is the benefit of a route being “new” versus “new to you”?

I would bet that an overwhelming majority of climbers can still find new routes with not too much effort. This makes the need for new development pretty small, plus the obvious point that the low hanging fruit is likely to have already been picked.

It’s been a little more than 3 years, but I’ve recently done first ascents of numerous 400’ slab climbs in the 5.8 to 5.9 range in SD County, less than a half hour approach. Excellent rock, squeaky clean, hardly any ledges or grassy cracks.

I know of many possibilities in YNP, but you have to hike for at least a half hour. I would say there’s at least as many quality unclimbed moderates as unclimbed hard climbs in California.

Can't comment on elsewhere but NorCal has many lifetimes of excellent moderates to be put up, and indeed some of them are going up. 

Sloan just put up 2 new 5.10 and less multipitch climbs spitting distance from Camp 4 in yosemite. 

Kevin Worrall wrote:

It’s been a little more than 3 years, but I’ve recently done first ascents of numerous 400’ slab climbs in the 5.8 to 5.9 range in SD County, less than a half hour approach. Excellent rock, squeaky clean, hardly any ledges or grassy cracks.

I know of many possibilities in YNP, but you have to hike for at least a half hour. I would say there’s at least as many quality unclimbed moderates as unclimbed hard climbs in California.

California…. MattH. The Southern Sierra has entire areas, chuck full of potential, with new roots, of all stripes going up (down). One of these places is a whopping 3 min hike. So if “new” climbs are what you seek you might be living in the wrong place. 

Strawberry Fields is a high-quality 5.9 sport line wedged between several classic lines on Elephant Rock at City of Rocks. It just went in several years ago. 30 second approach and a rich history of climbing since the 60s.

My buddy and I put up a 5.10- multipitch route on the biggest formation at the nearby Castle Rock State Park right above the parking lot last fall, and I think it’s pretty decent 

SethG wrote:

I'm thinking of places like Crane Mountain or Shelving Rock. 

And Silver Lake/Potter Mt, Sugarloaf slab, Loon Lake Mts, and Statebrook.

The New Routes webpage for the Adirondacks has over 900 routes put in since the most recent guidebook cam out.

MattH wrote:

When was the last time a good 5.8-5.11 went up in your area that didn't involve a previously closed crag being opened to the public? Is that the only way for new (high quality) moderate climbing to be developed/discovered? It seems the only new routes under 5.12 that I see are of 3 forms:

- mediocre climbs that were either previously deemed too low quality to develop, or the entire cliff was overlooked due to an unappealing nature (too slabby, too flaky, too manky, too short, too ledgy, etc)

- routes/areas that are so heinous to get to that nobody has bothered in the past to develop them (or, at least, to record them). Maybe the route is ok but the ROI on getting there just isn't worth it.

- routes/areas that were previously closed to climbing but are now openly published

If not, prove me wrong: what's the best climb in your area that's been put up in the last 2-3 years on a cliff that didn't just become publicly available?

I think if you show up to a cliff where not seeing anyone else would be weird this is true. People keep giving examples of other new climbs, but for the most part those areas do not look very developed around the climb. Like there is not gonna be a new 5.9 classic at military wall in the red, or main cliff in rumney, morning wall in smith. There might be a classic 5.9 in the back woods a few hundred feet from an existing cliff though. 

Wait until you find out that the youths are calling V6 to V9s 'mods'.
Seen dozens of good looking moderates in CO yet to see development. Obvious formations 20 minutes from a highway but they’re not hard or rad enough, so who cares.