New and Experienced climbers over 50 ##24

We’ve got lovely late winter/early autumn here. Grape harvest has begun. A local 28 buck bottle of wine won best wine awards apparently. The early morning light is yellow. It’s still warm enough to lie in the sun. I’m going to go to the beach tomorrow after bouldering in the gym. Nice indoor bouldering today.
The world is nice.

https://youtu.be/K0v0I14NcOY

Jan Mcwrote:

I got almost all the rest of my garden planted this afternoon.  So far I have 13 tomato plants, 6 poblano chili plants, 1 jalapeno plant, lots of basil, and fresh plantings of Italian oregano and French thyme to go with my old growth Greek oregano and thyme and rosemary (all three of which are getting near end of life).  I also have chives and garlic growing since last summer.  I have room for either a couple more tomato plants or a couple tomatillo plants, depending on what I can find.

Hmm.  Hoping my yard will be snow free by mid-June.  We gave up long ago trying to have a garden, that was a year when the snow persisted into July.

Jan Mcwrote:

Lori, just an FYI.  As much as I like Lynnie (I have known her for almost 50 years) there isn't anything she can teach you that Bob can't also teach you.  If you were really short I might recommmend her because she is as good as anyone at body position to overcome being short, but if all you want is basic technique, including crack, Bob is everything you will ever need.

I got almost all the rest of my garden planted this afternoon.  So far I have 13 tomato plants, 6 poblano chili plants, 1 jalapeno plant, lots of basil, and fresh plantings of Italian oregano and French thyme to go with my old growth Greek oregano and thyme and rosemary (all three of which are getting near end of life).  I also have chives and garlic growing since last summer.  I have room for either a couple more tomato plants or a couple tomatillo plants, depending on what I can find.

Jan, I’m so glad you said it. My gratitude for having the incredible good luck of finding Bob grows every time we are out. There’s nothing Bob won’t or can’t teach me if I am able to learn it. His encouragement and support are beyond measure.  
I didn’t get the first 40 years of experience on rock like most people here did. Not long ago I was still on the morning treadmill up in my Rocklin gym reading all the how-to books on outdoor rock climbing. But they were useless for me. This is not a DIY sport. Bob has taken me as far as he possibly can on every kind of rock and every style of climbing. He’s game to teach me anything my little heart wants to learn. This is an amazing gift for which I will always be grateful.

Your garden sounds lovely, . I hope you’ll share pictures at some point.  I am trying to be sensible here. The only way to grow here is with a setup like Russ’—a totally dug in garden with top.  A local fellow proposed to just build me an enclosed greenhouse with an aisle down the middle and little generator for heating and cooling and a “reading nook”.  I think that would work… but the obvious cost and commitment are beyond me.  Short of that, whiskey barrels on wheels are my plan.  And in lieu of a spring crop I planted my beloved rannunculas which bring such joy. I was going to ask Guy to take a picture of the field at Palomar… but since he was headed to a wake seemed a little presumptuous.  

Looks like we’re gonna get Solar here. 

I’m feeling a little philosophical this morning. I knew when I started climbing at 65 that I would have to pick and choose what was important. Did I want to lead climb? Did I want to become a strong crack climber? Bob has consistently said stick with what you love.

I have a humorous memory— I had taken my rack over to white lightning to do a mock lead on a very loose belay.  It took me a half a day of hanging on one arm and placing pro every 5 or 10 feet, figuring out which cam fit where and then moving on. I was miserable and exhausted at the end of that little journey. I did fine so I knew I could learn, but I didn’t enjoy it. If I was younger, of course, I would have insisted on leading. But I realized that day that this would be an exhausting and difficult learning curve for me and I would be giving up time on rock that I really love.

I guess this opens the discussion of with the years we may have left what’s important to you now—climbing and otherwise? Some of my favorite posts are from rgold who has shared his “smell the roses“ journey of this last decade for him. In almost every area of life right now I’m asking myself how important is this to me?  more and more I’m saying I can do without that. It’s not worth the time or it’s not worth the money or the headache. It’s a nice feeling to have a short, concise bucket list! 

This is Olympia the three legged cat. She has come a long way! These cats have changed my priorities. I'm letting her younger siblings destroy my machine shop because I just don't care any longer about the money or machining as much as getting them grown up & happy. They have chewed on rare Motorcycle parts broken expensive machine tools & I don't seem to care. 

I feel like Joe E Brown in the last scene of "Some like it hot" when Jack Lemon is trying to tell him why they can't get married. No matter what he says Brown says I don't care & finally Lemon pulls off his wig a says I'm a man & brown looks at him & says I don't care. 

That I'm allergic to cats doesn't seem to matter, that they have broken & or destroyed hundreds of dollars of my favorite things I don't care. 

They are cute little fucks. 

Jan Mcwrote:

Lori, just an FYI.  As much as I like Lynnie (I have known her for almost 50 years) there isn't anything she can teach you that Bob can't also teach you.  If you were really short I might recommmend her because she is as good as anyone at body position to overcome being short, but if all you want is basic technique, including crack, Bob is everything you will ever need.

I think my experience with coaches/trainers has been really different from what Jan is suggesting above.

Each has offered a unique perspective on climbing movement, how to approach and achieve improvement in strength and skills, sometimes even fundamental disagreements about what really matters in climbing.

I don't mean to sound like a shill for Lynn. She doesn't need it, and I have never actually trained with her. I have heard her discuss climbing movement and found her very insightful. I'm pretty sure if you spent some time with her you wouldn't regret it. Whether it would be cost effective is kind of your call.

I also don't know if Bob is more of a guide (ie he helps you get up climbs you want to do) or a coach (ie he helps you get better at climbing by intentionally selected experiences/exercises.) Or some of both. If he is your coach, it would be polite to verify that he doesn't mind you doing a clinic with another coach. 

My impression, over the 5 years or so you've been posting to this thread, is that he has morphed into more of a guide role, now that you know the basics of climbing. But that's pure speculation on my part.

I've enjoyed working with many coaches over the years. Some helped me become a better climber. Some didn't. But each of them showed me something new and gave me a broader and deeper experience in climbing. YMMV

Mark E Dixonwrote:

I think my experience with coaches/trainers has been really different from what Jan is suggesting above.

Each has offered a unique perspective on climbing movement, how to approach and achieve improvement in strength and skills, sometimes even fundamental disagreements about what really matters in climbing.

I don't mean to sound like a shill for Lynn. She doesn't need it, and I have never actually trained with her. I have heard her discuss climbing movement and found her very insightful. I'm pretty sure if you spent some time with her you wouldn't regret it. Whether it would be cost effective is kind of your call.

I also don't know if Bob is more of a guide (ie he helps you get up climbs you want to do) or a coach (ie he helps you get better at climbing by intentionally selected experiences/exercises.) Or some of both. If he is your coach, it would be polite to verify that he doesn't mind you doing a clinic with another coach. 

My impression, over the 5 years or so you've been posting to this thread, is that he has morphed into more of a guide role, now that you know the basics of climbing. But that's pure speculation on my part.

I've enjoyed working with many coaches over the years. Some helped me become a better climber. Some didn't. But each of them showed me something new and gave me a broader and deeper experience in climbing. YMMV

I’m about to blow through my three allotted posts today but so be it. I appreciate your thoughts on this, Mark. I would love to get out with Lynn because it’s always fun to get out with someone new and yes you do learn from everybody you climb with. I feel safe in saying that Bob would have no problem with me getting out with other folks, and I already do.

This is just from my perspective and maybe Bob sees it differently. I always feel a little funny talking about Bob, and not directly to him. But to clarify the relationship, maybe the first six months that I climbed with Bob I was just a client who showed up more and more regularly and who was learning the basics of tying in and moving on rock. At some point I think it became clear that I was in for the long-haul and I think that’s when the real training began. Bob knows me well at this point, and he knows how I move and what my strengths are, and where my weaknesses are.  When I walk through the park now, I am just amazed that I can claim some of the most magnificent routes anywhere – – on top rope, of course, but still, I am marvel at it. And on every one of those routes, Bob did the advance due diligence and did the training. Even if he wasn’t there for that particular climb, we probably talked about the beta well in advance. He seems to know whether I’m ready for a 5.9 or 5.10. if I struggled on a route, he suggests the work I might need to do in the gym. If he knows that I badly want to climb a certain route – – usually something kind of obscure – – he starts preparing me for it sooner than later. We really don’t go to places where I am certain to get shut down , unless I just need a day of punishment. I believe we are friends. Honestly, if I had more energy and strength, I would say I am still at the beginning of learning this craft.

I make little videos of some of my Climbing days and watched the last one of me on King Dome, and what I had never seen was the diligence and care Bob puts in to that belay.  I watched him move continuously to keep me from getting tangled up in the rope or having to deal with any inconvenience while I was focused on climbing. I thought wow he is really knocking himself out to make sure I have a great time. Yeah, I know that it’s paid for. But as a business owner myself sometimes there’s no amount of money that can compensate for doing a great job for a client.

I’ve been out with a lot of Guides and some friends and there is not even a comparison of value. But by the way, I did shoot Lynn an email and see if she’s available. I’ll tell you who else I’d like to climb with one day Peter Croft, and I know he does some guiding. I was getting ready to set up a day with my little buddy Jeremy since he’s an amazing athlete on the rock and a lot of fun to hang out with. Who I would really love to see is Kris or Jan especially to visit routes they personally put up.

One added perspective on this Lori... I've heard you mention a few times how you don't often see women out climbing. I don't think you have had the opportunity to be around many super solid female climbers (I know you did meet up with Jean and John). I do think that there are some differences in the female perspective in terms of headspace as well as movement. I have no idea what Lynn's clinics might be like, but I have quite enjoyed doing some clinics with Chelsea Rude and Laura Capps here in Colorado. If I had the opportunity, I'd be very interested in taking clinics with Beth Rodden or Steph Davis. 

I'm sure Bob is fantastic, but you might also enjoy learning from a female instructor. One of the very first things Chelsea asks in her clinics is 'how do you most like to be supported?' - this was huge and not something I've ever heard a male coach or guide ask. She really wanted to know - do you prefer loud encouragement, beta spray down, quiet, 'I got you', etc.... It also made me think about what works best for me when I am scared, cruxing, etc, which then makes it easier to communicate that to new partners (rather than being at the crux and asking them to please STFU - ha ha!).

As always, my 2 cents...

Erika, what you say about types of support is so true. And it often depends on who's offering it. My husband's advice on cruxes was often unwelcome, not just because he's my husband   but because he's 8" taller. Lately I've been climbing at the gym with someone very good and about my height. When I'm looking stumped, he may say something like "slide your hands over" or "try stepping up" and it's often just what I need. (While the thought balloon over my head is saying "duh.")     

Lori, Erika hit the nail on the head. I have had the great luck of climbing with a lot of women climbers. Besides being generally nicer than men I have climbed with, women use their bodies differently than men. Almost every woman I have climbed with has had better technic than most of the men I have climbed with. 

If you lived up here you would see women climbers everywhere! The 12 year old girls up here kick ass. & I'm climbing so poorly right now that I stay the hell out of the way of any women from 8 to 78. I just bow politely when they pass by. 

Mark Frumkinwrote:

 I have had the great luck of climbing with a lot of women climbers. 

Same here.  Over the years, I have had about twice as many regular female partners as male ones.  It started as a practical matter. I am shorter and weigh less than most male climbers.  It is just easier to lead belay someone of about the same weight, and we can work on Beta together given our similar physique, etc.  I have also been told I climb like a girl (mostly by guys) so that's another fit.  

Every time I get suckered onto a Gaines routes that is jussstttttt harder than the grade advertised ( for mere mortals ) with bolts that are jusssstttt a move or two higher than I want to go... I shake my fist and say, "Dang you Bob Gaines"!

"Climb like a girl" is a complement, and good advice to new climbers, too. Meaning, save the big muscle for when you really need it, and finesse as much as possible. 

First day on rock for 2023!!

Found a crack, grew some fingered antlers, and....

Holy crap!!

SUN!!!!!!

Best, Helen

Murfwrote:

Every time I get suckered onto a Gaines routes that is jussstttttt harder than the grade advertised ( for mere mortals ) with bolts that are jusssstttt a move or two higher than I want to go... I shake my fist and say, "Dang you Bob Gaines"!

Hey Murf, you just need to get on the routes I've put up in recent years. As I've gotten older, the bolts have correspondingly been placed closer and closer together!

Bob, we call that Senior bolting ;)

There is such a climb on Chiquito Dome on Shuteye Ridge named Too Old to be Bold.

Yup senior bolting 

It pretty awesome that Syco has been retro bolting many of his moderate  horror fests in NH. He got old and married ;)  one 5.7 pitch he added 7 bolts to and still thought it was spicy :) 

Thank you everyone for your thoughts on who I should be climbing with yesterday.   I really enjoy climbing with guys but have no problem climbing with women. It would be wonderful to climb with Beth Rodden—I agree on that. I am such a fan. Not just her incredible climbing skills but her as a person – – she’s been so incredibly real about her life. If she’s ever in Joshua tree, I’d be the first in line. I’d love to climb with Lynn as well because it would be fun to see how she would approach some of the routes that I’d still like to climb. but I’m pretty sure based upon the last time, I tried to contact her that she would only schedule through cliffhangers and not privately.

This picture showed up on my phone this morning. CS Special, which I know no one else was particularly enamored of but I couldn’t have been more thrilled. I stopped even trying to get the boulder problem at the bottom. It was that beautiful face that I wanted to climb. I got to wear my Dave’s Not Here T-shirt, because well, he wasn’t here!

What’s everyone up to today? I am smoking a brisket and last night I made mop sauce for it. I think it’s my new talent.

Murfwrote:

Every time I get suckered onto a Gaines routes that is jussstttttt harder than the grade advertised ( for mere mortals ) with bolts that are jusssstttt a move or two higher than I want to go... I shake my fist and say, "Dang you Bob Gaines"!

Yes, I've heard you take the name of Gaines in vain more than once.