New and Experienced climbers over 50 #23

He looks great if you are willing to go the adrenochrome, hgh, and dianabol route.  Probably eats a lot of leafy greens too.

Russ Wallingwrote:

He looks great if you are willing to go the adrenochrome, hgh, and dianabol route.  Probably eats a lot of leafy greens too.

Russ you’ve been awfully grumpy lately.  Not your usual positive and uplifting self.    I have a homeopathic remedy that might help. 

Lori Milaswrote:

Russ you’ve been awfully grumpy lately.  Not your usual positive and uplifting self.    I have a homeopathic remedy that might help. 

I'm a ray of positive light.  

Lori Milaswrote:

I’ve never been a big Sylvester Stallone fan, but he is incredible in the new series Tulsa King. OMG he is hot. It is really nice to see someone who is older and in my opinion better looking than he was 30 years ago. I’m inspired.

I was Sly's climbing instructor for the movie Cliffhanger, in 1993, 30 years ago, when he was 46 years old.

He climbed 5.10c on his first day of climbing!

Bob Gaineswrote:

I was Sly's climbing instructor for the movie Cliffhanger, in 1993, 30 years ago, when he was 46 years old.

He climbed 5.10c on his first day of climbing!

Now he's old enough to join our campfire group.

Frank Steinwrote:

Good lord, you moving down there!?  How long are you staying? Sounds fantastic. 

No, just a few weeks. 

But I love onsighting at new to me areas.

Haven't rope climbed seriously in over a year, so hard sends pretty unlikely regardless.

So we will probably just visit each crag for a couple of days unless we really fall in love with one of them. 

The Tarragona guidebook describes 11 crags within reach of Cornudella de Monsant!

And there are certainly more :-)

Russ Wallingwrote:

I'm a ray of positive light.  

Yes. As far as grumpiness - you'd fit in very well on the east coast. Be considered pretty calm, actually.

Really nice weekend in J-T. The party in front of us may have set a record for the oldest party to have done Walk on the Wild Side. The three of them totaled 208. 

I had a wonderful time with very old friends. I'm always happy anytime I get to spend with Bonnie Kamps. If Jan & Guy had been able to make it out the three of us could have had a shot at that record.

Mark Frumkinwrote:

Really nice weekend in J-T. The party in front of us may have set a record for the oldest party to have done Walk on the Wild Side. The three of them totaled 208. 

I had a wonderful time with very old friends. I'm always happy anytime I get to spend with Bonnie Kamps. If Jan & Guy had been able to make it out the three of us could have had a shot at that record.

Yeah, was really sorry we missed this.  Just starting to feel reasonable again.  

More Monday laundry day musings:

Sunday was damp and chilly here so we decided to go to the gym. We knew it would be crowded but there are so many lines, one can always find something. It was delightful to watch a group of 4 teen (pre-teen? - I can't tell ages anymore) young women, working hard routes.  I think they may have been members of the Sender team, there with their Dads all belaying.  Honestly the only thing shutting them down was some of the reaches.  It's not like seeing young climbers doing hard routes is new to me - I remember going down to visit with Barry Bates when he was working at Pacific Edge in Santa Cruz and having him point out a new climber Sharma to me - but now it almost seems like it a a routine thing that there are so many of these young strong climbers everywhere.  I think it's great but I worry a bit about wear and tear on their tendons.

There are some new gym route setters - one of them I recognize his "handle" from the Bay Area gyms, he arrived about 2 months ago!  Anyway we've noticed over the past 2 months that the ratings are getting more accurate with certain setters, so you can't take it for granted anymore when you jump on something that it will be 2-3 letter grades easier.  I suppose I could start paying attention to the initials but I can't be bothered.  It adds an element of surprise!  I like having a numerical theme when I do gym routes.  Yesterday I got a seven card onsight straight: 5.9, 10a, 10b, 10c, the dreaded 10d, 11a, 11b (not in that order).  (Real ratings probably 5.8, 5.8, 5.9, 10b, 10c, 10c, 10c.)  Then I completely thrashed myself on a hard and physical TR, did one lap on a crack to finish and was done, done, done.  About 400 feet of climbing.  I was exhausted and had to ice numerous body parts last night.  Then slept for 10 solid hours.  I'm in awe of those of you who report going to the gym many days per week!

That’s a whole Lotta Climbing Phylp! I really enjoyed watching the kids at our climbing gym and their competitions and they’re just a bunch of monkeys. They’re so much fun. I really do miss the twice a week Climbing dates I used to have, but I couldn’t do three.

—-

Speaking of grumpy… I hate to complain here when everybody else is only reporting really good and happy news. But I am trying to come up with a strategy for having a life while I am figuring out what happened to my life. I don’t even know how to describe the exhaustion that I have felt over the last easily four months. It’s really been longer than that but finally I just said fuck it I have to get out and get busy again even if I am feeling bedridden. So when I talk to my friends or family about climbing, they say “What? Are you crazy? Your just gonna set yourself back further.“ Well so be it. I think I’ve covered all the big stuff with the doctors and what I’m left with is an Epstein bar virus and supposedly “long Covid“. So a few of my acquaintances counsel that the way they got better was they just went to bed and stayed there … For months.  well, I’ve already tried that, and I’m gonna go with a new plan, which is just to throw caution to the wind and go, even if I am feeling lousy. 

Helen mentioned the C word.  Wouldn’t something be growing or hurting by now? Anyway, there’s only one part of me that hasn’t been scanned, so I may get that done this week or next week. I’m just gonna have to outwait this, that’s all.  

Anyone a breaking bad fan? There’s a new Instagram ad for a chip that Aaron Paul and Bryan Cranston are selling. They already have a joint venture on their brand of tequila. But if you get a chance check it out because the ad is hilarious. I have forgotten how much I love that show.

Lori, I’m not a doctor, don’t even play one on TV, but I think that you just prescribed yourself the best medicine. Just go out and do things—climb, hike, garden—not too much (I get the sense that sometimes you overdo-hard to know when to stop). Yeah, you’ll feel beat afterwards for a while, but then go out and do it again. It may not ‘solve’ your medical issues ( though, who knows, it might), but it will put you in a much better psychological state—and that in itself is very important.

Alan Rubinwrote:

Lori, I’m not a doctor, don’t even play one on TV, but I think that you just prescribed yourself the best medicine. Just go out and do things—climb, hike, garden—not too much (I get the sense that sometimes you overdo-hard to know when to stop). Yeah, you’ll feel beat afterwards for a while, but then go out and do it again. It may not ‘solve’ your medical issues ( though, who knows, it might), but it will put you in a much better psychological state—and that in itself is very important.

Thank you Alan.  I really appreciate this. The first time I went out was six weeks ago. I climbed one pitch in 45 minutes and came home and went to bed. The second time I was out with Bob for a few hours climbed a little harder and came home and slept for two days. the third time I climbed just one pitch too many and thought I might have to go to the ER that night. But I truly believe I am getting stronger again. I climbed yesterday with Bob and had to cut it short but I really concentrated on rehydrating and eating extra protein when I got home and I think it went a little better , so I’ll try again tomorrow!

Bob knows me pretty well and knows what to say. He has pointed out that with my new svelte body – – I lost 30 pounds with this – – and I am still climbing strong. I could probably do something pretty fantastic! Right now just getting out at all is “pretty fantastic“.

It is true that I have never figure it out how to take it easy on the rock. Unlike a gym where I could definitely tell the difference between 59 and 511 to me there is very little difference here between a 5.5 and a 510 in the Park. They all take work, and they’re all out there in the wind and the elements and they all require full participation. 

phylp phylpwrote:

- but now it almost seems like it a a routine thing that there are so many of these young strong climbers everywhere.  I think it's great but I worry a bit about wear and tear on their tendons.

I think it might be the opposite.
I know a bunch of young ones who started in their pre-teen or early teen years. They are still hard at it after 15 to 20 years. Most of them are reaching or just recahed peak form in their thirties.
I suspect they will continue at a very high level for another 10 to 15 years.  Posing the same level or threat as worn out tendons are careers, life style changes, other interests, etc.  Of course, I do not 'track' the ones who have dropped out due to one reason or another. So I might be biased.

phylp phylpwrote:

Yesterday I got a seven card onsight straight: 5.9, 10a, 10b, 10c, the dreaded 10d, 11a, 11b (not in that order).  (Real ratings probably 5.8, 5.8, 5.9, 10b, 10c, 10c, 10c.)  Then I completely thrashed myself on a hard and physical TR, did one lap on a crack to finish and was done, done, done.  About 400 feet of climbing.  I was exhausted and had to ice numerous body parts last night.  Then slept for 10 solid hours.  I'm in awe of those of you who report going to the gym many days per week!

In the winter, I try to get in three sessions a week; one long one on the weekend and two shorter ones during the week.  For the long one, my staple is 14 to 16 leads for 500 ft (altho I pump that up to 18~20 for 600 if I can get Alan to stay longer).  The shorter sessions I tend to scramble to get 8 leads in for 250 feet. Not always successful though.  Oh, yeah, I sleep very well after 500 feet.  Last time I did 600 with Alan, I slept for 10 hours afterwards.  My wife thought I had fallen sick.  Even with that amount of sleep I was still 'off' the next day.  

Just think about NIAD or 3000 ft in 3 hr!  Totally blows my mind.

been working a lot and stressing over owning a home. its a first for me.  Haven't felt good in awhile.  played hooky today and went for one of my winter hikes. Aparently i froze Isa near half to death last time out so she passed on the opportunity for suffering.  flying solo I get to choose my timing so i did the afternoon/ evening shift.   Skied to the top of Smugglers notch and then did a 20 min hike to the base of hidden Gully. it starts with a benign looking runnel that dissapears into a wide chimny but after 60m it spits you out in this really cool looking snowfield with a headwall. 

 Deep snowpack so the headwall was short

once you surmount the headwall you are in this massive ampetheater with three diferent finishes.  Left is steepest and cliffs out so you rappel the route. center is longest with 140m of grade 3 and the right is about 90m to the slings.

  I took the right finish

it got sporty for a bit. super bulletproof and brittle.

 but then I kicked through a crusty outer layer with my left foot and had a nice solid flat footed stance.

 was rather stoked to get to the slings

 going down this way is rather arduous with lots of threads and mandatory downclimbing if you don't have two ropes so i like to top out and go down a different gully.  The top out is guarded by a boulder move. there must have been some erosion and rockfall because the pointy rock that stuck out underneath this thing and made a good foothold is no longer there..

 It was actually a bit pumpy getting over this beastly chockstone...

the view from the top

the trail down went a different way than how i have done it in the past but rather than wallow trying to find the cave rappel i followed the tracks to a spooky free hanging rap that I was relieved could be done with a single 60m rope.

my 6mm tag looked really skinny backing over that lip and doing the lazy spin in space...  another thousand ft of steep snow gully to get to my skis.  I know most folks these days are all about eco warrior naked threads but damn if I don't really just get a warm fuzzy feeling when I come apon a fixed thread when its getting dark and i am getting cold... this one let me rap past a rock band that I would otherwise have had to downclimb. 

I love the evening light in the mountains... 

once i got back down to my skis it was about a 15min ski back to the truck. about 3.5hrs CTC

Lori Milaswrote:

Thank you Alan.  I really appreciate this. The first time I went out was six weeks ago. I climbed one pitch in 45 minutes and came home and went to bed. The second time I was out with Bob for a few hours climbed a little harder and came home and slept for two days. the third time I climbed just one pitch too many and thought I might have to go to the ER that night. But I truly believe I am getting stronger again. I climbed yesterday with Bob and had to cut it short but I really concentrated on rehydrating and eating extra protein when I got home and I think it went a little better , so I’ll try again tomorrow!

Bob knows me pretty well and knows what to say. He has pointed out that with my new svelte body – – I lost 30 pounds with this – – and I am still climbing strong. I could probably do something pretty fantastic! Right now just getting out at all is “pretty fantastic“.

It is true that I have never figure it out how to take it easy on the rock. Unlike a gym where I could definitely tell the difference between 59 and 511 to me there is very little difference here between a 5.5 and a 510 in the Park. They all take work, and they’re all out there in the wind and the elements and they all require full participation. 

Lori, glad to hear you are getting out again - but I would like to offer a word of caution if you are open to hearing it? If not, no need to read more but perhaps others might have interest. 

Post Exertional Malaise (PEM) and Post Exertional Symptom Exacerbation (PESE) are hallmarks of long covid. This is very different than being deconditioned or out of shape after a typical illness. What you are describing sounds exactly like the crash I’d expect with PEM/PESE. The fatigue, feeling much worse, other symptoms usually hit anywhere from 24-72 hours after exercise. You might not feel bad while exercising. The crash can last days to weeks. There is so much that is unknown about how to treat/manage this, but the current evidence is that pacing is key and pushing exercise can be harmful. This does not mean don’t exercise! But it does mean being hyper aware, keeping a journal of your physical (and cognitive, emotional, mental) response to each exercise session, and finding a way to stay well under your limits to avoid that crash/exacerbation once you kind of figure out where that threshold is.

Much of the research on these post-viral syndromes has been done in chronic fatigue syndrome (myalgic encephalomyelitis or ME) which is associated with Epstein Barr. Look up Todd Davenport’s research  - he is now studying PEM/PESE in long covid.

Interestingly, PEM (and brain fog!) is more likely in people who had mild infections. Not sure why that is, perhaps the severe infections have so many other sequelia impacting cardiovascular and pulmonary systems that exercise isn’t really happening to trigger this. Personally, it took me about 6 months before I could get my heart rate up and do something resembling my normal workouts after my relatively mild infection last spring. I always felt worse after exercise which was so unusual for me. My whole life I have exercised my way out of every illness. It did get better after I started pacing and self-limiting. Pushing too hard/too fast was very detrimental and would set me back. I’m still not what I would consider back to normal.

The most important screening question for PEM is - do you feel positive effects after exercise? If you answer no, then you are probably in this group. Positive effects referring mainly to physical, but could also extend to emotional/mental/cognitive.

phylp phylpwrote:

.  I'm in awe of those of you who report going to the gym many days per week!

I’m climbing four days a week at the moment, generally two days during the week after work which is either indoor bouldering or indoor top roping/leading and Sat/Sun outdoors unless it’s raining or I can’t get a partner.  But I limit my indoor sessions to two hours of pretty much constant climbing.  I don’t like periods of chatting/rest when climbing, I like to climb as much as I can.
But I do have a lot of wear in the palms of my hands at the moment. Tendons are fine, even my ‘brace of uniceps’ are ok. When I do a lot of walking to crags outdoors my knees give me grief but otherwise I bounce back fine.
Im 61 in a couple of months so still quite young   

Nick, those are beautiful shots, but Isa’s a smart woman. I get cold just looking at them. Come February, I just find myself dreaming of warm and sunny climates…and, I live in the desert.

Carl, 61 is a great age. A good friend of ours, who started climbing at 36, did her first .12b/7b at 61. 

Nick, it sounds like you’ve been feeling some real pressure and stress with all that’s going on in your life. I’m glad you got to take a mental health break and do some thing that you love. I think sometimes it’s even better to do it alone because it gives you the space to think and process. Thanks for sharing your beautiful pictures.

—-

Erika, thank you so much for taking the time to write what you did. I am grateful for whatever you can share about this. I feel so in the dark. I have joined two Facebook groups, one for long Covid and one for Epstein-Barr and I realize I haven’t gone through the half of what most of them have. I have never been on a respirator, I’ve never been in the hospital for this. Some of these people have been desperately sick now for years, so I have to step away because I really don’t want to claim that for myself. 

You would think that some doctors somewhere would have some idea. When I told my doctor that I had gotten out to climb for two hours last month, he wrote me back and said, then you can’t possibly have an infection because you wouldn’t have been able to do that.  Here was my favorite response from a FB friend:

I am sleeping a minimum of 10 hours every night and take one or two naps a day, and that still doesn’t guarantee that I will be functional for the day. Hardest part for me is the three steps forward and the two steps back – – I just started feeling strong enough to go back to daily mass and then out of nowhere got sick again and couldn’t even get in my car. I was so excited when I could finally go into the local market and shop without Worrying that I couldn’t make it through the checkout line. This is physically hard and emotionally hard. I keep saying if I just knew what it is I am going through. I could deal with it.

I will resume my journal as you suggested, and include the mental/emotional symptoms. I didn’t mean to sound cavalier about Climbing, right now I am experimenting and just praying that by spring and summer this will be a whole lot better so any resources or advice you have to share greatly appreciate it. Thank you!