Powerstuds

Has anyone else noticed the quality seems to have gone down with the dewalt powerstuds. I’ve been using them for a couple years with no issues, but all of a sudden they don’t seem to ever engage and I can pull them right out of the hole. I’ve been using a dewalt sds bit instead of my usual Bosch, but I can’t imagine that makes that much of a difference. I promise I’m not wallowing out the hole, but I’m a little disappointed because these bolts are such a bargain for ss.

Where are you buying them?  Do they have knurled cones or smooth?  

smooth cones. Just the normal powerstuds.  I haven’t had this problem with the sd6 ones I’ve used in the past

Haven't noticed any difference in in Dewalt 07315-PWR and I went through 3-4 boxes in 2022. 

Dewalt 07315-PWR

I'll keep an eye out for any differences in feel or quality though! 

Definitely was the drill bit. No issues once I switched to a Bosch again

Alex, any chance the Dewalt bit is stamped 10mm (instead of 3/8")?

Greg Barneswrote:

Alex, any chance the Dewalt bit is stamped 10mm (instead of 3/8")?

The bit is stamped 10mm! The packaging says 3/8. Very interesting. Crappy quality control from dewalt in this case I guess.  Good catch.

is the small difference ok for most applications? Seems like a potentially pretty dangerous screw up for a lot of applications where a concrete anchors are used

Alex Moranowrote:

is the small difference ok for most applications? 

No

Seems like a potentially pretty dangerous screw up for a lot of applications where a concrete anchors are used.

That's why (as other have stated) it's important to achieve the correct torque, it ensures the bolt is set correctly (in an appropriately sized hole, etc.). Even appropriately sized bits won't always drill a perfectly sized hole 100% of the time. The two main factors influencing this are bit wear (smaller than expected hole) and soft rock (larger than expected hole). Achieving the correct torque is the best way to confirm all went as planned.

Hello,

As you found out the wedge bolt will not torque properly and it will be pretty obvious something is wrong. For other type of anchors such as sleeve or screw bolts, I have no idea. 

Thank you

Well if you have some of those 10mm bits you can try some metric wedges from BP team tough. That is what i have been using based on nbrowns rec.

No telling how many of those got packaged incorrectly.

Technically the 3/8" stainless Power-Bolt is certified for 10mm holes as well as 3/8" (it's actually stamped both 10mm and 3/8" on the sides of the sleeve), but in the handful of times I used a 10mm bit with a 3/8x2.25" stainless Power-Bolt, one bolt didn't want to snug up (a quick tug with a draw "set" the cone and then it tightened up normally). That was a stubby Hilti 10mm bit, hand drilling from steep stance on granite, and so might not reflect your results if using a 10mm bit with a power drill on rappel. But better to just use 3/8" bits, and if you have several of those 10mm bits, just buy some metric 10mm bolts from Team Tough.

Never use a 10mm bit with 3/8" stud bolts, there's not enough expansion with those.

Greg Barneswrote:

Technically the 3/8" stainless Power-Bolt is certified for 10mm holes as well as 3/8" (it's actually stamped both 10mm and 3/8" on the sides of the sleeve), but in the handful of times I used a 10mm bit with a 3/8x2.25" stainless Power-Bolt, one bolt didn't want to snug up (a quick tug with a draw "set" the cone and then it tightened up normally). That was a stubby Hilti 10mm bit, hand drilling from steep stance on granite, and so might not reflect your results if using a 10mm bit with a power drill on rappel. But better to just use 3/8" bits, and if you have several of those 10mm bits, just buy some metric 10mm bolts from Team Tough.

Never use a 10mm bit with 3/8" stud bolts, there's not enough expansion with those.

Thanks Greg, 

Just got done pulling the bolts on a route I used the dewalt bits and upsized to 1/2.  I'm sure they were ok but dont wanna find out the hard way.

Unrelated question but don't feel the need to make a new thread for it - I've seen things about using 1/2" Powerstuds on 3/8" hangers without a washer as well as using them on 1/2" hangers with a washer. Does anyone know if the 1/2" Powerstuds fit either the Petzl 10mm hanger or the 12mm hanger? I'd imagine it would fit the 12mm but don't want to buy a bunch and find out they don't.

Tal Mwrote:

Unrelated question but don't feel the need to make a new thread for it - I've seen things about using 1/2" Powerstuds on 3/8" hangers without a washer as well as using them on 1/2" hangers with a washer. Does anyone know if the 1/2" Powerstuds fit either the Petzl 10mm hanger or the 12mm hanger? I'd imagine it would fit the 12mm but don't want to buy a bunch and find out they don't.

You're confusing powerstuds (wedgebolt) with powerbolts (sleeve bolt).  A 1/2" powerstud won't fit through a 10mm hanger but it'll fit through any 12mm hanger.

Also, dewalt disapproves of using 1/2" powerbolt with 3/8" or 10mm hangers, you can read more on fixe's website 

Tal Mwrote:

Unrelated question but don't feel the need to make a new thread for it - I've seen things about using 1/2" Powerstuds on 3/8" hangers without a washer as well as using them on 1/2" hangers with a washer. Does anyone know if the 1/2" Powerstuds fit either the Petzl 10mm hanger or the 12mm hanger? I'd imagine it would fit the 12mm but don't want to buy a bunch and find out they don't.

https://youtube.com/shorts/49evr0nw_-M?feature=share

Don't mix and match 3/8 with 1/2 in or 10mm with 12mm

1/2in is .7mm larger than 12mm so always nice to check if a 12mm hanger fits a power stud (wedge bolt) before buying bulk, Is there a particular hanger you are wondering fits?

I've tried to repurpose old 1/2in/12mm early 90s petzl hangers with 1/2in power studs (wedge bolts) but the washer is too large and interferes with the bend in the hanger.

I haven't heard any cases yet where 10mm hanger doesn't fit 3/8 stud.

I rarely use sleeve bolts so not sure about 1/2in-12mm fit with hangers on those.

1/2" wedge bolts fit into 12mm holes no problem, even older tight 12mm holes - a 1/2" wedge bolt isn't really 1/2" at the threads, it's a bit narrower.

The upper metal ring and blue sleeve of a 1/2x2.75" Power-Bolt (sleeve bolt) will fit into some 12mm hole hangers but not others. The upper sleeve of a 1/2x4.75" Power-Bolt is not very round and measures well over 12mm (often over 1/2") so it definitely won't fit into any 12mm hole hanger.

A 10mm hole hanger will always fit a 3/8" stud (10mm is bigger than 3/8"), and 3/8" studs will fit into some old very tight 3/8" hole hangers where a 3/8" Power-Bolt won't quite fit - such as some old SMC and Leepers - not that you'd want to re-use those hangers!

The best bet for 1/2" x 4.75 powerbolts is the old style 304ss fixe steel hangers (not the new style 316ss ones). 

https://fixehardware.com/index.php/fixe-ss-1-2-bolt-hanger.html

It takes about 2 or 3 minutes per hanger of vigorous filing with a round file to get a petzl 12mm hanger to fit a 1/2" powerbolt 

https://youtube.com/shorts/PAaEUqM5i8o?feature=share

Jim Daywrote:

The best bet for 1/2" x 4.75 powerbolts is the old style 304ss fixe steel hangers (not the new style 316ss ones). 

https://fixehardware.com/index.php/fixe-ss-1-2-bolt-hanger.html

It takes about 2 or 3 minutes per hanger of vigorous filing with a round file to get a petzl 12mm hanger to fit a 1/2" powerbolt 

https://youtube.com/shorts/PAaEUqM5i8o?feature=share

Exactly what I was looking for, thanks. Was going to grab some 12mm petzls but looks like fixe it is

Greg Barneswrote:

Alex, any chance the Dewalt bit is stamped 10mm (instead of 3/8")?

This may be a major problem. There's a new crag under development in North Lake Tahoe where approximately 40 brand new SS studs recently appeared. ALL of them are spinning in the hole. We went over everything trying all the tricks we knew to get them to set but even on the studs that we could get to engage none would torque to spec. 

I've never seen anything like it and I'm trying to figure out what caused it across such a large scale. 

Wrong size bit was my first thought but the holes don't look that oversized. The rock is hard granite. 

They appear to be D length SS Hilti quick bolt 3's on fixe and climb tech hangers. 

I would love to connect with the bolter but they are unknown. 

It looks like while they were installing them if they couldn't get torque, they just installed another one next to it because they didn't know how to remove it so that leads me to believe this was occurring at the time of installation too. 

Replacing all of them is going to be a project. 

I have encountered a pretty good number of stud anchors in the north Tahoe area that are loose And although they will snug, the stud will begin to spin in the granite before reaching spec. 

I know there's a shift towards studs in granite over sleeve anchors but I don't see this issue with any of the SS rawl/ power bolts out here. They stay solid though the winters. They're probably also more tolerant of incorrectly sized bits. 

With the Hilti Quick Bolt 3 I'm wondering if someone used a DeWalt bit that was labeled as 3/8 but was infact 10mm as the OP stated if that could be the cause as Greg suggested or are there other culprit's? 

I'm curious, if the bolts won't tighten up, that probably means they'll be super easy to remove?  They should be able to be removed with a YABR or equivalent, and even just skip the spinning step!

Either they'll pull straight out with next to no force, or they'll tighten up.  Either way, you're good!  Turns a major project into a weekend's worth of work

Jim Daywrote:

I'm curious, if the bolts won't tighten up, that probably means they'll be super easy to remove?  They should be able to be removed with a YABR or equivalent, and even just skip the spinning step!

Either they'll pull straight out with next to no force, or they'll tighten up.  Either way, you're good!  Turns a major project into a weekend's worth of work

They are going to be somewhat more difficult to pull because for some reason the nuts are all frozen on the studs even though they're brand new. So you can't take the hangers off. I'm not sure why. Maybe they were bashed in by the nut. I've tried weighting the hanger, driving wedges behind the hanger, and even pulling the stud out about an inch and putting heavy large channel locks on it to keep it from rotating and I still can't budge the nut. 

I have been looking for a YABR or similar for a while and they're always sold out everywhere. It would definitely be worthwhile to get something better than my little homemade puller given the volume here. 

Is there anything else available that anybody has come up with besides homemade?

I think normally I would make this somebody else's problem but it's right in my backyard and it's going to be a high traffic spot once it gets discovered so it's going to bother me if it doesn't get done right. 

People are already leading on them obliviously.