Moon vs. Kilter vs. Tension Board

Any Tension board installers in the Boston (Metro-West) area?

Anyone have an outdoor Tension Board? I'm considering Tension for an outdoor adjustable-angle wall in a moderate climate (northern CA) that will be covered when not in use. However I still have some concerns about how long the wood holds will last. The alternative is to go with the 2016 all-plastic MoonBoard setup.

Jeff S wrote:

Anyone have an outdoor Tension Board? I'm considering Tension for an outdoor adjustable-angle wall in a moderate climate (northern CA) that will be covered when not in use. However I still have some concerns about how long the wood holds will last. The alternative is to go with the 2016 all-plastic MoonBoard setup.

Jeff, don't leave wooden holds outside. Especially if you're gonna drop 3k+ on nice holds. I had a spray wall with medium quality holds and I always took them down during the winter and even with treated wood that was covered with waterproof covering and heavy tarps the wood saw more wear than I'd like. I'm building my tension board ion the garage, I'd recommend building it inside unless you don't mind spending cash every few years on a new set. 

Cris Garcia wrote:

Jeff, don't leave wooden holds outside. Especially if you're gonna drop 3k+ on nice holds. I had a spray wall with medium quality holds and I always took them down during the winter and even with treated wood that was covered with waterproof covering and heavy tarps the wood saw more wear than I'd like. I'm building my tension board ion the garage, I'd recommend building it inside unless you don't mind spending cash every few years on a new set. 

Cris, thanks for your feedback. Sounds like plastic is the way to go outdoors. Enjoy your indoor Tension setup! 

I think the Tension board is far superior to the Moon board.  For me it does everything a moon board is capable of and a lot more.  I also prefer the wood holds.  But, it costs a lot more.  The moon board is great and I love to climb on it, but I would pick tension.   

Add Grasshopper to the list.

https://grasshopperclimbing.com

mbk wrote:

Any Tension board installers in the Boston (Metro-West) area?

I know of one. PM me if you're still interested

mbk wrote:

Any Tension board installers in the Boston (Metro-West) area?

Just find a decent carpenter and show them pictures, not that hard for them to put one together.

reboot wrote:

Well, you lose variety, which is a pretty big deal if it's your primary training tool (vs as a supplemental tool). Taking it to an extreme, would you put a dozen of the same hand holds on a 12x8 woody? Because that's what the tension board is (I count maybe 5 or 6 basic shapes overall):

If I wanted that many of the same holds, I'd have just built a campus board.

The original Tension Board has 29 different handhold shapes and 2 foothold shapes.  

While it may look like little variety, those semi-circle holds are *not* all the same.  Some are 3/4" deep, some 1" deep, some smaller, some larger.  Some are positive, some are flat edges, some are slopers.  Furthermore, where you do have multiples of the same hold, they are not all oriented in the same direction.  Some are placed at 45 degrees, as sidepulls, as underclings, etc.  

V0s/V1s on a steep Tension Board do seem to use only a small number of the biggest holds.  However, once you get into the V4 range (about range where MB starts), the variety seems endless.  

While the Tension Board *full* sets cost more than a MB, you can elect to start with just set 1, set 2, or set 3 individually.  Currently, set 1 plus the footset is about $1700.  The app allows you to search problems by which set(s) you have.  There's no similar option to buy the MB piecemeal; it's all or nothing.  With Tension, you can make a small investment now, and if you exhaust your options in a year or so, add another set later.  

I have all sets of the 8' x 10' Tension Board, and also a spraywall for endurance work and warm-ups.  As my TB is exclusively for limit bouldering, I don't feel the need for LEDs.  This year I had 4 limit projects and sent one.  At that rate, it's hard for me to imagine ever running out of interesting problems.

Some people argue the MB trains power better.  I don't get that.  There are countless TB problems where I jump but still cannot reach the distant hold. While a double digit boulderer may see it different, for my modest climbing level it seems to work power just fine.  

There is a learning curve.  My first day, I could do only V0.  Second day V1. Third or 4th day was happy to get V2.  This was at same point in my climbing where I could get MB benchmark V5 in a few minutes.  It wasn't sandbagging; it just takes a few sessions to start to learn how to move on the board.  Glad I didn't write it off my first try.

Tension is the best and the new Tension Board is even better. Tension has by far and away the most interesting movement possibilities and makes better climbers. 

Bryan wrote:

Tension is the best and the new Tension Board is even better. 

Maybe tension 2 is the new best (& w/ matching $$$), I haven't seen it.

But let's see:

• Symmetry is so superior that V2 now has a spray layout option.
• Wood holds are obviously so much better that 1/2 of V2 holds are plastic: Tension seems to still lack the (CNC?) machinery to process more complex wood shape like the MB wood holds. I'm not sure I'd care that much if it wasn't for how expensive the system is.
• The OG tension holds were so great & varied that V2 reuses none of them.

If I owned V1, that last point would've been a real stinger, considering the user base wasn't that big to start w. At least Ben Moon has the common courtesy of reusing a lot of holds in each new iteration. We'll see, I'm starting to get bored of the 2019 set, & a new layout is coming out very soon.

reboot wrote:

Maybe tension 2 is the new best (& w/ matching $$$), I haven't seen it.

But let's see:

• Symmetry is so superior that V2 now has a spray layout option.
• Wood holds are obviously so much better that 1/2 of V2 holds are plastic: Tension seems to still lack the (CNC?) machinery to process more complex wood shape like the MB wood holds. I'm not sure I'd care that much if it wasn't for how expensive the system is.
• The OG tension holds were so great & varied that V2 reuses none of them.

If I owned V1, that last point would've been a real stinger, considering the user base wasn't that big to start w. At least Ben Moon has the common courtesy of reusing a lot of holds in each new iteration. We'll see, I'm starting to get bored of the 2019 set, & a new layout is coming out very soon.

Tension 2 you get both mirror and spray with the same hold set, don't really see the point in complaining about the ability to get an entirely different layout and database of problems if you ever get sick of your current layout. I prefer the mirror and that one has significantly more problems set than the spray layout currently. Wood holds are better in a lot of ways but plastic has advantages, now you get both - don't see the issue. The Tension wood holds are in an entirely different league of quality and usability than the Moon wood holds too - especially the new Tension holds. Tension holds look and feel like a functional work of art. Moon wood holds feel like an afterthought. The OG tension hold set had some absolute bangers and some ones that could use some improvement. I don't see the point in complaining about innovation and refinement. Your last point doesn't make any sense to me and it doesn't seem like a common courtesy to reuse holds to me. I haven't paid for either the Tension 1 or the Tension 2 set ups that I climb on so maybe I would feel differently about your last point if I owned Tension 1, but I don't think so. Tension 1 is still great and I would not say it's obsolete and would still rather have that then any of the Moon sets if I had it as my homewall (I have a Moonboard Mini as my home wall but that's a different story). From my perspective the Moonboard does one thing and it does it exceptionally well. You can get insanely strong climbing on a Moonboard. I climb on the 2016 and I enjoy it and think it's an excellent training device. The Tension Board is playing an entirely different game. The creativity and movement possibilities that are possible on the Tension Board are not even remotely possible on the Moonboard in my experience. If cost is a factor (which it is to most people) the Moonboard is well worth considering, but if we're just comparing which one is better, I'm going Tension by a mile. 

Bryan wrote:

Your last point doesn't make any sense to me and it doesn't seem like a common courtesy to reuse holds to me. I haven't paid for either the Tension 1 or the Tension 2 set ups that I climb on... From my perspective the Moonboard does one thing and it does it exceptionally well. You can get insanely strong climbing on a Moonboard...If cost is a factor (which it is to most people) the Moonboard is well worth considering.

I mean, considering the whole thread is about spending your hard earned $$ to build a home wall...

Gotta shell out for the grasshopper, then fill in the empty spots with tension/wood

Fellas fellas, don’t forget the real enemy here… the DWoods monstrosity board 

My local gym has a 50° kilterboard. By far the most fun commercial board I've climbed on. Loads of good problems. Lightning is great. Most important of all the holds are really ergonomic and have a skin friendly texture. Pleasure to climb on.

The moonboard is the total polar opposite IMO. Problems are hard and straightforward, not necessarily nice to climb on. I really hate the holds on the moonboard. As unergonomic as they come. Hard on the skin. Even the woodholds are relatively hard on the skin. Moonboard might get you strong as hell but as I happen not to be training for hard grotty problems on British limestone or Hubble, I prefer other boards.

I've never climbed on the tensionboard.

Personally I would go for a nice 45° spray wall with wooden holds, maybe mixed with some resin. I love the beastmaker woodholds. There's a ton of great holds on the market by small makers. Great for the skin. If you get fed up with the set up you can just reset the whole board. Endless possibilities. And you can keep on adding cool new holds over the years.

has anyone actually climbed on a Woods board? there's a gym coming to my town that elected to go with a Woods board and a Moonboard, but I'm worried that they kind of fill the same use case. I think they went woods because Andy Raether has some connection to the gym, and he set the woods board. anyone care to comment?

I recently checked out the kilter board and I'm still a fan of the tension board unless you want to spend the time, money and labor to build an adjustable home board. I just went out this weekend and climbed three old projects first go. I feel like the main advantage of the tension board (wood holds in general) is the confidence factor when you get on real rock that has friction again. Good holds feel absolutely impossible to fall off of and bad holds just feel like normal when you're training on wood.

Lincoln S wrote:

has anyone actually climbed on a Woods board? there's a gym coming to my town that elected to go with a Woods board and a Moonboard, but I'm worried that they kind of fill the same use case. I think they went woods because Andy Raether has some connection to the gym, and he set the woods board. anyone care to comment?

Haven't climbed on a Moon Board in years (and not the latest set) but it feels like big moves between bad holds usually. The Woods board is generally smaller wood holds except for the few identical larger plastic mini jugs. You'd better hope your gym puts it on an adjustable board because I find it somewhat useful at ~20 degrees, but if it's fixed at 40 degrees or more you'll need to climb nearly V10 to get any use out of it  

I find that the Kilter board at 30-40 degrees or more is the most fun training board. It's got the best holds in my opinion (all friendly but still challenging) and lots of options for interesting movement.

So, to sum up the thread so far (in order of cost):

Moonboard: fun training with ouchy holds ($)

Tension: symmetric (optional on TB2) good training for real rock, approachable, skin friendly ($$)

Grasshopper: Symmetric wild card with a new filler hold set that nobody has climbed on ($$)

Kilter: approachable with good comfy holds, fun, and applicable training for gym climbing ($$$)

Woods: masochism with a side of #strongboionly vibes (?$)

did I miss anything?