New and Experienced climbers over 50 #22

Kai Larsonwrote:

I stumbled on these guys.

Can't stop listening to them.  Everything they touch is gold.  

Wow those guys are hot hot hot!  Thanks for the share!

No climbing for me, just too much eating, and hanging out with in-laws for Thanksgiving.  We all got out for a Cirque-du-solei show.  First real theater event my daughter's ever been to.  It's called "The Night Before".  Not the best Cirque show I've been to, but some good stuff in there.  Particularly liked the roller-skaters!  Mostly it was special to do it with my daughter.

Very sorry to hear of Ed's passing.  Didn't know him personally, just through his guidebooks and reputation.

GO

Carl Schneiderwrote:

Oi. Anyone on here have a teardrop camper? Currently I have a queen sized canvas swag (for cold months) and a three man tent (for summer) with assorted tables, plastic tubs, a fold up shelter thingy etc. I’ve been looking at YouTube videos of the Vistabule teardrop camper (there’s similar Aust versions from about 13k.  I don’t need aircon but wouldn’t mind a water heater/shower thingy.
Any recommendations? Thoughts on teardrop campers?

I have something even better, which is a friend who owns one and loans it to me. You might also ask Kevin who sometimes posts in this group. He has a nice one that he pulls behind his Jeep into some rugged areas of CA.

I like them a lot. But I've never had to deal with extended bad weather or cold with one. It's basically just a very luxurious sleeping area and a cool pop-out kitchen. 

Been doing quite a bit of indoor bouldering lately.  Lost weight (down to about 65 kilos and 12.8% body fat) so feeling light too.

https://youtu.be/VlspSbGQ9XE

GabeOwrote:

Wow those guys are hot hot hot!  Thanks for the share!

No climbing for me, just too much eating, and hanging out with in-laws for Thanksgiving.  We all got out for a Cirque-du-solei show.  First real theater event my daughter's ever been to.  It's called "The Night Before".  Not the best Cirque show I've been to, but some good stuff in there.  Particularly liked the roller-skaters!  Mostly it was special to do it with my daughter.

Very sorry to hear of Ed's passing.  Didn't know him personally, just through his guidebooks and reputation.

GO

Here's my current favorite of theirs.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5jLzm3Ofng

Just try to tap your toes to this.  Good luck!  What they do with the beat will blow your mind.

@Carl - I've been doing a lot of indoor bouldering too.  My current workout is to do all all the autobelays in the gym up and down up to 5.11 (most are quite easy) to work endurance.  Rest, and then work on a few boulder problems for power.  Seems to be working okay, feeling stronger.  

GO

This year's issue of Accidents in NAC came a couple of weeks ago. I read 4-5 reports every night. Can't handle more than that.  Such a range of emotions reading them - it's very intense.  Lots of sadness, some instances of " that could happen to anyone" (rock breakage and rockfall stuff, getting off route).  But some of them make me so angry.  People dead because of the mistakes of partners who should have known better.  The fatality of a woman who was trying to set up to lower through some rings at the top of a pitch, for the first time ever, but didn't really know how to do it.  A kid who was being mentored by someone who set up a bad anchor that failed on rappel. Should never have happened.

The one thing that makes me feel positive is I almost never feel like I learn anything "new" from them.  All the things  people do are things I already know well can lead to accidents - even if I occasionally choose to do them (like choosing to skip some gear placements on long easy runouts).

phylp phylpwrote:

This year's issue of Accidents in NAC came a couple of weeks ago. I read 4-5 reports every night. Can't handle more than that.  Such a range of emotions reading them - it's very intense.  Lots of sadness, some instances of " that could happen to anyone" (rock breakage and rockfall stuff, getting off route).  But some of them make me so angry.  People dead because of the mistakes of partners who should have known better.  The fatality of a woman who was trying to set up to lower through some rings at the top of a pitch, for the first time ever, but didn't really know how to do it.  A kid who was being mentored by someone who set up a bad anchor that failed on rappel. Should never have happened.

The one thing that makes me feel positive is I almost never feel like I learn anything "new" from them.  All the things  people do are things I already know well can lead to accidents - even if I occasionally choose to do them (like choosing to skip some gear placements on long easy runouts).

Seems like everyone’s dying, Phyl. Maybe it’s just where my attention is these days. I know you’re writing about climbing  accidents and fatalities. But I’m just a little overwhelmed with all the people in the news who have recently died – – today Christine McVie of Fleetwood Mac and I was not ready for that. She was 78.

It never occurred to me when starting that thread a few years ago that we may all know each other right up to the grave. But more and more I understand that that is the work to be done at this age. OK, not the youngsters who barely are 50 and shouldn’t even be here.   So maybe it’s just me and the struggle with health issues but it is on my mind. My best friend Mallory is a year older than me, we’ve known each other since 10th grade where she introduced herself to me when she saw that I was on my first acid trip in French class and I might need a friend. I did and she shadowed me the whole day.  And now here we are at the other end of this journey still as close as ever and talking about do we may be want to all live under one roof for the duration? (Tony, me and Mal) 

i’m staying in a hotel tonight in Santa Anna because I had one remaining doctor who I really wanted to see face-to-face. I knew him when I went through something very similar to this in 2009 so I called him and we’ve had three or four phone sessions but he finally said “enough labs, Lori! We’re not gonna find your problem in all this bloodwork. I am at a dead halt unless I can see you in my office and we can do some testing  in person.“ So that’s what I’m here to do.   I never saw myself as someone going from doctor to doctor but they seem to send me there. Today I saw two lovely infectious disease doctors who really REALLY wanted to find something wrong with me. I suggested Ebola.     Clearly I have or had a Lyme infection and reactivated Epstein-Barr virus and maybe that’s enough—but they said “If that’s what you have there’s no treatment for it”.  They were all more concerned about this loss of iron. It just doesn’t match up to any disease so I will be seeing a hematologist in late December and maybe an infusion would help.  I don’t know what the lesson is in all of this – – just to try to go with it and do my best.  I’ve been walking 2 to 4 miles a day so that’s something! 

In my world being so immersed in Integrative and holistic medicine it is easy to get pissed off and frustrated at what mainstream medicine has to offer but I realize I need both and just showing a little appreciation for their efforts makes everyone a whole lot happier. So today I really thanked the infectious disease doctors for giving it their best.  I think they’ll go the extra mile for me.

Found myself enchanted by a picture of the Black Wall today and recalling that I really wanted to climb something on it… anything… it’s such a beauty.  Phyl? I’ll bet you have been there.  

The Black Wall

GabeOwrote:

Here's my current favorite of theirs.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5jLzm3Ofng

Just try to tap your toes to this.  Good luck!  What they do with the beat will blow your mind.

@Carl - I've been doing a lot of indoor bouldering too.  My current workout is to do all all the autobelays in the gym up and down up to 5.11 (most are quite easy) to work endurance.  Rest, and then work on a few boulder problems for power.  Seems to be working okay, feeling stronger.  

GO

We only have one small roped climbing gym in the whole of the state of South Australia with no auto belays and only maybe 5 routes with fixed draws for leading (as well as quite a number of TR routes of course). 

Carl Schneiderwrote:

We only have one small roped climbing gym in the whole of the state of South Australia with no auto belays and only maybe 5 routes with fixed draws for leading (as well as quite a number of TR routes of course). 

We are spoiled rotten here by comparison.  Two weeks ago I was at this gym - https://centralrockgym.com/glastonbury/
I got on 19 lead routes (out of about 35 available) with fixed draws and was able to complete 15 of them first go.  Quite a workout!

Lori Milaswrote:

The Black Wall

Lori, you have been debilitated for such a while now, and I am distressed and frustrated on your behalf. You, as I, have a scientific background, and as scientists we always have this faith that the data will reveal the truth.  But sometimes, it doesn't happen that way.  It may just be that you have to just take care of yourself - with sleep, fresh air, gentle exercise like walking - until your body heals itself.  And keep at it with the docs, pushing to get an explanation.

I once got some kind of virus when I was up at South Lake Tahoe that had an acute onset of dramatic symptoms (bright yellow diarrhea being one) that lasted for only 2 days.  But I was exhausted for about 8 months afterwards.  And then I was better.  If you do have something that started with an infectious agent, it may just take time to resolve.

I climbed at the Black Wall many times when I lived up north.  All of Donner Summit has fabulous climbing.  Maybe my favorite of the walls was Snowshed, which has so many beautiful crack lines.

Lori, you show a lot of grace in the face of this. Saw this the other day and thought of you. Keeping you in my thoughts.

phylp phylpwrote:

This year's issue of Accidents in NAC came a couple of weeks ago. I read 4-5 reports every night. Can't handle more than that.  Such a range of emotions reading them - it's very intense.  Lots of sadness, some instances of " that could happen to anyone" (rock breakage and rockfall stuff, getting off route).  But some of them make me so angry.  People dead because of the mistakes of partners who should have known better.  The fatality of a woman who was trying to set up to lower through some rings at the top of a pitch, for the first time ever, but didn't really know how to do it.  A kid who was being mentored by someone who set up a bad anchor that failed on rappel. Should never have happened.

I can't read these reports.  They make me sad and upset, and often screaming why? inside.

These days I am quite aware that I am not as observant as I used to be or want to be. Years of experience help and my judgement is still OK but I know I am not noticing as many things while getting ready to climb and climbing. Case in point were the two times I only tied in thru my waist belt (and not the belt plus the lower loop) back in 2021. I was really unnerved after the second time and have since gotten a lot more conscious of the whole tie in process. Self check and double check by belayer these days. So luckily no more slip ups like this over the past 1,000 tie ins or so.
But at the back of my mind, I am wondering what else about climbing and leading that I am not as sharp with these days ... 

I think it is only rational to try to guard against the effects of losing a step. I think of Whymper's famous warning that "...a momentary negligence may destroy the happiness of a lifetime."  I'm more careful about double-checking things. I've never been a fan of ostentatious partner checks, but I do keep an eye on my partners when they are tying in, and I've caught some potentially serious lapses.  I try for more redundancy in systems. For example, I never start out on a rappel without test-weighting the setup while still attached to the anchor with a tether.  I place more gear than I would have years ago, and am more careful about doubling up on mission-critical pieces.  I've switched to assisted braking devices to make up for any loss of reaction time as a belayer, and I've dialed back on the difficulty of things I do, especially on the lead.

S. Neohwrote:

We are spoiled rotten here by comparison.  Two weeks ago I was at this gym - https://centralrockgym.com/glastonbury/
I got on 19 lead routes (out of about 35 available) with fixed draws and was able to complete 15 of them first go.  Quite a workout!

For a few years we lived in the triangle between Glastonbury, Hadley and Worcester and man those were some fine gym years! No auto-belays when I was there.

Now its a small gym with about 6 lead routes like Carl has, its definitely is easier to get the mileage in from bouldering, especially on the Kilter board

Who here cooks with iron pans? We have 4 of them speaking of enough iron in the blood. My biggest problem is they weigh a ton, I use them for everything from eggs to toast to cornbread and pizza.

phylp phylpwrote:

This year's issue of Accidents in NAC came a couple of weeks ago. I read 4-5 reports every night. Can't handle more than that.  Such a range of emotions reading them - it's very intense.  Lots of sadness, some instances of " that could happen to anyone" (rock breakage and rockfall stuff, getting off route).  But some of them make me so angry.  People dead because of the mistakes of partners who should have known better.  The fatality of a woman who was trying to set up to lower through some rings at the top of a pitch, for the first time ever, but didn't really know how to do it.  A kid who was being mentored by someone who set up a bad anchor that failed on rappel. Should never have happened.

The one thing that makes me feel positive is I almost never feel like I learn anything "new" from them.  All the things  people do are things I already know well can lead to accidents - even if I occasionally choose to do them (like choosing to skip some gear placements on long easy runouts).

I was disappointed in this years "Accidents".  Too many reports on fatalities from climbing with out a rope.  My opinion is that those who climb that way are not in the group who are not ACC members.  Also too many reports on bouldering accidents.  Again, we all know the risks involved.  I much prefer reports that inform about unsafe practices in trad. or sport climbing where there are lessons to be learned.

S. Neohwrote:

I can't read these reports.  They make me sad and upset, and often screaming why? inside.

These days I am quite aware that I am not as observant as I used to be or want to be. Years of experience help and my judgement is still OK but I know I am not noticing as many things while getting ready to climb and climbing. Case in point were the two times I only tied in thru my waist belt (and not the belt plus the lower loop) back in 2021. I was really unnerved after the second time and have since gotten a lot more conscious of the whole tie in process. Self check and double check by belayer these days. So luckily no more slip ups like this over the past 1,000 tie ins or so.
But at the back of my mind, I am wondering what else about climbing and leading that I am not as sharp with these days ... 

I don’t think that it’s decrease in sharpness, but that most of us have been doing it for so long that we become complacent in what has become routine. In my fourth decade of climbing, I failed to complete my knot exactly once, and that was two years ago, but once is all that it takes. 

Idaho Bobwrote:

I was disappointed in this years "Accidents".  Too many reports on fatalities from climbing with out a rope.  My opinion is that those who climb that way are not in the group who are not ACC members.  Also too many reports on bouldering accidents.  Again, we all know the risks involved.  I much prefer reports that inform about unsafe practices in trad. or sport climbing where there are lessons to be learned.

We're stuck with extracting lessons from what's actually happened (or at least what's actually been reported)  I don't think the AAC is editing out reports "that inform about unsafe practices in trad. or sport climbing" in favor of climbing without a rope.  It is what it is.  Given the media celebration of free soloing, it may be that explicit accounts of the downside are exactly what the general climbing public, if not our group of oldsters, needs to hear.

The main take-away I get from the reports is, "if you think this can't happen to you, think again."

When I put this flared 5.11 chimney up onsight a couple of years ago, I was super amped up.  I thought it was going to be harder, like 12-, so I asked my brother to stay another day to belay me (my friend Jason who died was going to belay me but he was deaf as a fence post).  So it was February at 8,000 feet and super cold and windy, and somehow I sketched my sorry ass up it.  I had the other end of the rope tied to my harness to pull the drill up but the pitch was way longer than it looked from the ground, like 90 feet.

Anyway, my brother made a suggestion and I did it but then realized that I had totally taken myself off belay on a small ledge.  I thought, “I can freak out or follow this figure eight  back through and NOW I AM ON BELAY AGAIN!”

Only time I have ever done that, I hope it I was the last.

Lori- happy to see you checking in. I was worried that you went past your “turn around time” and something was way wrong. Quite a bit of difference between 70 and 50 years old I’d say. I climbed my best at 50 - 51 to be exact. Kris also- we were seriously looking at the climb “Straight to Hell” in the Needles. Now that’s all in the past and a clean TR send of some 5.10 face climb is an accomplishment I savor and enjoy.
LSD in French class! I bet you thought you had perfect pronunciation! No?
Ed Webster’s passing has me shook up- I’m 3 years older then he was.
Phylip…. I had the same thing happen to me! Salmonella the Doctors figured- that laid me up for almost a year! Somehow I still like home made Tamales from the Tamale Ladies selling from ice chests from the trunks of cars!
Regarding accident reports. I read those with detachment and a can’t happen to me attitude. I have had several close calls over the decades and learned a lot from each one. Lessons learned and remembered. What I can’t get over are the bouldering fatalities and Injuries. I always warn newbie’s about the dangers of hi-balls and the fact that a 25 foot fall can shatter your legs or maybe kill you! To me it’s quite simple- you jump down from a 2nd story window you get banged up.
So Lori- I hope you figure “IT” out. I figure that being weak and tired sometimes is par for the course (sp?) for us soon to be 70 years old types!!!!!

rgoldwrote:

We're stuck with extracting lessons from what's actually happened (or at least what's actually been reported)  I don't think the AAC is editing out reports "that inform about unsafe practices in trad. or sport climbing" in favor of climbing without a rope.  It is what it is.  Given the media celebration of free soloing, it may be that explicit accounts of the downside are exactly what the general climbing public, if not our group of oldsters, needs to hear.

I think the data showed there was a significant tick up in accidents related to soloing.  So...might be more the reason for that emphasis rather than just perceived media traffic.

The charts in the back are always interesting to me (trends, etc).  Always look for accidents I've heard about to see if the write up matches.  We parse some local accidents here to understand all the potential causes and what could be done to mitigate.  As I age, I'm more into "avoiding the touch" instead of "touching the void".

Good times!