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Biner broke while topstepping
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Not sure if anyone else has had an experience like this, but it has me a little spooked. Recently, I was aiding up a steep, pretty reachy bolt ladder a few moves off the deck, nothing too crazy. So I'm topstepping high in my aider and manage to get my other aider in the bolt above me, when all of a sudden the adjustable daisy I'm using to topstep explodes off the ladder I'm currently on. Luckily I had just gotten the higher bolt clipped, which caught me without much of a fall. With my daisy hanging below me, the biner on my ladder clipped into the bolt I was on looked like this, still in the bolt hanger:  I'm still not completely sure what happened, but I can only imagine the force from my adjustable daisy biner was loaded onto the gate of my ladder biner while topstepping. While reaching for the bolt above, it's possible my ladder biner pressed against the rock and opened slightly, causing the gate to completely pop out of place with the force of my daisy. My question is, has anyone else experienced anything like this, and how can it be avoided? I'm thinking I will always clip my daisy to my ladder on the spine side of the biner on my ladder from now on. I'm just thankful I had clipped the bolt above, or I would have decked in a pretty nasty way. |
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1 Why were you using daisies? (assuming you were climbing A2/C3 or easier route) 2 Why wasn't the daisy biner into the hard point of the ladder? If to the ladder biner, how about using a slidelock? Personally, I don't climb harder than C1 (arguably C2 but most C2 is C1 with my ape index), so I never use daisies and I only use CAMP Dyon biners for my ladders, quick and easy use. I use the same Dyon for the petzl evolv adjust, which I'll occasionally use for steeper C1 or roofs, but otherwise never use the daisies, as they are far too much fustercluck on easier aid. Again, if you're doing hard aid, forgot I posted anything :) |
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Pretty sure the petzl adjustable aider comes with a rubber stopper to slide over your biner to prevent this. |
Christian Heschwrote: I was actually only using a single adjustable daisy, which I will clip to my ladder if I feel the need to rest or need to use in place of a fifi to topstep. I was on easy but steep terrain, so I felt a single daisy wasn't too bad of a cluster, and still gave most of the benefits of two daisies. When I decide to use the single daisy, I typically just clip it to the biner on my ladder, rather than the masterpoint, out of ease, but maybe I won't be doing that in the future... |
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Interesting…. I really like those ovals. I regularly hook the gate side of my ladder biner with my Alfifi without ever having an issue. I don’t use daisies, but it seems that the gate of this would have to have been forced open slightly, somehow. That’s the only way I can see the gate pulling out like this… Is the gate bent or tweaked at all to one side or is it straight and just passed the nose? It would have had to be pulled to one side of the nose while slightly open to be in front of the nose as pictured. |
Skot Richardswrote: I was thinking the same, the gate must have been forced open while my daisy was yanking on it. Weirdly though, the gate is not bent at all...  |
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Cole, I do the same thing, not ragging you for sure, that's the standard, as far as I know. A lot of people I know love ovals, I can't use em, the Dyon is too easy to use... but the gate is def light weight, for sure, so perhaps what happened to you would have been even worse with a Dyon. One thing I have found VERY helpful is to hook my second ladder to the first ladder, then stand in both to have better balance for those higher steps...often times I can just muscle the handle for enough balance to stand and place a quick piece, then come back down to second step, clean the outer ladder, and clip it to the high piece. YMMV |
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As Skot says, probably daisy opened the gate then pulled it to the side. Because of this I try to always clip the spine side of the aider carabiner, however I bet I've ended up hanging off the gate side a ton of times. |
Cole Ingwrote: What’s that biner? Looks cheap. The gate came around the nose. |
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Wow for once I can say I agree with tradiban… it does look like it just came around the nose. Can’t say it looks cheap though it looks like Petzl to me |
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With keylocks the open gate doesn't have to flex very far to get past the narrow nose. |
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That’s a Petzl oval. Definitely not some no name Amazon biner. |
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I witnessed a person using an Alfifi severely bend outward the gate of a Dyon carabiner. I have always thought a solid gate carabiner would handle the rigors of aiding better. It’s disconcerting to see this on an oval. :( |
Skot Richardswrote: Is it though? Notice the OP never identifies it. |
Tradibanwrote: It is a Petzl oval. |
Christian Heschwrote: What do you mean you don't use daisies? |
Cole Ingwrote: Best retire that shit then and any of the same vintage in your quiver. |
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I went up the prow a few weeks ago and the same thing happened to my partner with a petzl spirit carabiner. Results look exactly the same with the gate popped around the nose like that We think that the fifi loaded the gate sideways as he stepped up it and popped it out. |
Kevin DeWeese wrote: I could gtfo... or I could do a little core work and figure out how to balance in two ladders, eliminating the fustercluck of daisies, on easy/moderate aid...and not overstress my ladder biner, especially since I use one with a relatively weak gate (I'll trade that for the best nose profile in the business).
I thought we were talking about daisies... and there's no question they're less efficient for easy/mod aid, but far safer, if you think you're prone to drop your ladders. I think I qualified my statement just fine and stand by it, as worded.
I'll second the "try an alfifi"... I would imagine they're great for hard aid. Another idea is using an edelrid slidelock for the ladder biner, if you're going to pull on it so hard with your daisy biner. I try to never lever my weight like the OP's situation, as I'd prefer to use balance to mitigate that possibility (and also I kinda have to, using a Dyon, which would prob slip the gate even easier). |
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I’m with this guy. Daisies suck. They slow you down. Tangle you. Make you slow. You move way faster without daisies in the way. I only pull them out if a particular move is tenuous and I’m actually concerned the bounce test may lead to a dropped ladder. But i avoid that as much as possible. I’ll whip them out momentarily to make hook moves, particularly if I have to free climb off the hook, the daisy keeps it with me. In 95% of situations from piece to piece, my daisies are clipped to the side of my harness and my ladders are free to move up the wall the way God intended. I can feel the slowness happening when I use my daisies. It’s a completely different rhythm. A slow one. |
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My daisies were certainly out much more on Zodiac than I would have wanted and I was much slower for it. They were out for the exact reason of being afraid of pieces blowing or dropping a ladder. However, pieces shouldn’t be blowing once you’re already on them for the most part. They blow during bounce tests. If one has the capacity to keep their Alfifi hooked, and their hands holding on, you can blow a piece and catch the ladder and still catch yourself on the previous piece without a daisy. After all, you’re not supposed to fall. How else would one climb C4 and above if they couldn’t be sure they wouldn’t fall. Daisies aren’t gonna save you because you’ll just factor two your previous piece and rip it out anyway. Edit: but that’s what exactly so scary about breaking a carabiner like this. |
