New and Experienced climbers over 50 #22

Rich, Who says that I'm "coherent"? And upright, not so much either!!!!!   Ward, and Sheftel--could they be aliens?

Ward Smithwrote:

I’m hoping to be one of them!  Of course things could change in an instant, so I’m not taking anything for granted.  For me, avoiding injury is priority number one so I never go to exhaustion in a workout (of course I do on a specific route or problem), but quit the session while there is still some gas in the tank.   The times I have been hurt in the last 10 years were usually when I was having a really good day and kept pushing it. 

You are right.  I should tone those sessions down a notch.  Avoiding injury is priority number #1 at our age for sure.  Even a little ankle sprain now takes 3~4x as long to get over for me compared to 20 years ago

Alan Rubinwrote:

Rich, Who says that I'm "coherent"? And upright, not so much either!!!!!   

Al, you are coherent.  Very much so.  
And you are upright. And up for that Muir Valley Stairmaster march out at the end of the day. Humping a pack!
I, for one, do not think I will be doing what you are doing today 16 years from now.
You get A+ grade for showing up and working hard on your climbs.  Can't say that for a lot of people past 70.

S. Neohwrote:

You get A+ grade for showing up and working hard on your climbs.  Can't say that for a lot of people past 70.

Shoot - can’t say that for a lot of people under 70!

Yep, count your blessings while you have them.  In my early 60s I was still climbing hard (easy 12) and bouldering all the time.  Then the arthritis started, first in the fingers, then the shoulders and elbows, and finally in the knees.  At some point the pain of continuing makes it no longer any fun and just not worth it.  When you wife tells you its time to slow down because she is tired of hearing you moan all night you have no choice but to pay attention.  Then the real challenge comes into play because what the hell do you do with yourself when you can no longer do what has kept you motivated for the last 50 years?!

Don't put all your eggs in a climbing basket.

Hell, I'll be happy to do an eastern 5.9 after 60 but I definitely avoid injuries like the plague now. The adrenaline/dopamine gets going sometimes and (like ward said) its so very easy to overdue a session. Avoiding injuries is harder than the climbing for me.

John Gillwrote:

Don't put all your eggs in a climbing basket.

I realized at least forty years ago that much as I enjoyed climbing, it couldn't by itself fill up a life.  Maybe if I'd been a lot more single-minded about it, I'd be scratching up some harder things in my dotage, but that just wasn't, and isn't, who I turned out to be, and no regrets about that...

That said, sitting at the top of the crag after a bunch of moderates (some of which aren't feeling so moderate anymore), watching the day wind down in the Hudson Valley is still one of my greatest joys.

Brandt Allenwrote:

Just got back from a week trip to the Sierra East side. We climbed at Alabama Hills, then headed up to Bishop and visited Pine Creek Cyn, my first time ever climbing there, then went to Owens Gorge. I hadn't climbed at Owens in 15 years or more, and did the best routes of this trip there. I really hope to get up there again before winter weather sets in.

At Pine Creek I reached my goal of doing 70 new routes in the year of turning 70 years old. Overall I did 18 new routes on the trip, bringing my total for the year to 74. Big thanks to Helen for giving me the idea for this goal.

My goal for my year of turning 70 was to climb with as many of my climbing partners as possible.  So far I've climbed with 14 friend/partners, but I think I may be able to connect with another 3 or 4 before the end of December.

Who knows, maybe we will have weather for a trip to the Gorge in December - they are predicting another warm, dry winter.

Brandt Allenwrote:

At Pine Creek I reached my goal of doing 70 new routes in the year of turning 70 years old. Overall I did 18 new routes on the trip, bringing my total for the year to 74. Big thanks to Helen for giving me the idea for this goal.

What a neat and motivational idea!!  Thanks to you both for suggesting and doing it!!!
I will have to check last year's tally and this year's for 60 and 61 respectively.  I have little hope for 2021 but I might have a chance for 2022 since I did ~20 at The Red and all of Hanging Mtn was new to me as of this year.  And looks like we might get 2 or 3 more nice enough weekends before being shut down by the cold and wet.

It’s hard to leave an update and it’s hard not to.It’s wonderful reading all the great posts here and all the great reports of climbing adventures and getting and staying strong. As always I love rgold’s input and John Gil…Like we have to listen to this!

It’s been a little grim at our house because I just haven’t gotten better. I got a phone call yesterday and a report from the parasite people in New Mexico and they said they thought I had some kind of aggressive cancer and need to go see an oncologist right away. The gal who called me, Megan, was in tears and sad they had conferred on the phone for quite a while and we’re very devastated about this news. So of course I took it seriously… Till I thought more about it. I quickly forwarded that report to my primary physician here at Eisenhower and he said none of it makes sense or comports with any of the recent lab work I’ve had through UCI and to just not take it too seriously. And I wouldn’t if I were feeling better. This week my iron levels dropped precipitously again in just 10 days and I have a right to freak out a little about this. I’m taking more iron than I ever have and expected those levels to have gone up. So I don’t know what the problem is. Maybe it’s as simple as I am still recovering from a recent parasitic infection? But why am I trying to figure this out? The medical system here is pretty strange… You go from one specialist to another and they check off the box and you’re done with that one. So… For now I guess I just double down on the iron and liver some more and hope that it’s sticks..

I can’t tell you how happy I am about this picture. I still take a morning walk but it’s usually slow and week but this morning I decided to do a little scrambling and my knees did not buckle and it went just fine. So I’m gonna go with that. Maybe I will be back out on the rock after all. Tony keeps telling me I overthink things and I need to get my head in the game. I don’t know what that means. He said you can talk yourself into any disease so I suggested the two of us go for a 2 mile jog—just tell yourself your back works fine. So that shut him up for a little while.

The 70 New Route Quest was a lot of fun and kept things interesting. Technically I am in my 71st year of life so the goal should be 71 routes, which I have already ticked. I'm at 74 now. My new modified goal is to make it to 100 before Jan 2, 2023, when I turn 71. The problem for me is that I've already done so many routes here in Joshua Tree that it's hard to find ones that are not either too hard or are too unpleasant (there are a lot of crappy grainfests here.) Of the 74 new routes I've done this year only two were here in JT! There are some other areas nearby, New Jack City and Fairview Mt. being the best. Beyond those places, Red Rocks and Sierra Eastside are good locations for new ticks.

Onward to 100!

rgoldwrote:

I realized at least forty years ago that much as I enjoyed climbing, it couldn't by itself fill up a life.  Maybe if I'd been a lot more single-minded about it, I'd be scratching up some harder things in my dotage, but that just wasn't, and isn't, who I turned out to be, and no regrets about that...

That said, sitting at the top of the crag after a bunch of moderates (some of which aren't feeling so moderate anymore), watching the day wind down in the Hudson Valley is still one of my greatest joys.

Beautiful shot, Rich. While I get the thrill of pushing grades, I'm ultimately with you that for me the most fulfilling climbing is long, moderate "vertical hiking" with my good friends in beautiful natural settings.

Brandt Allenwrote:

The 70 New Route Quest was a lot of fun and kept things interesting. Technically I am in my 71st year of life so the goal should be 71 routes, which I have already ticked. I'm at 74 now. My new modified goal is to make it to 100 before Jan 2, 2023, when I turn 71. The problem for me is that I've already done so many routes here in Joshua Tree that it's hard to find ones that are not either too hard or are too unpleasant (there are a lot of crappy grainfests here.) Of the 74 new routes I've done this year only two were here in JT! There are some other areas nearby, New Jack City and Fairview Mt. being the best. Beyond those places, Red Rocks and Sierra Eastside are good locations for new ticks.

Onward to 100!

Have you been over to King Dome lately to try Arturo's Special or La Copine?  I love those routes!  Also, there are two new ones at Cave Corridor.  

Lori, what a hard road this has been. The parasite people in New Mexico sound nutty. I think you're right to stay the course with your primary care doc and keep as active as you can.

I'm doing PT for my back and foot issues and am considering platelet replacement therapy if the PT doesn't solve the problems. (Anyone here have experience with PRT?) I considered trying to log 76 new gym routes before my 76th birthday, but I'm more than two months past my 75th and haven't kept track, so it's too late to start now.    

Brandt Allenwrote:

The 70 New Route Quest was a lot of fun and kept things interesting. Technically I am in my 71st year of life so the goal should be 71 routes, which I have already ticked. I'm at 74 now. My new modified goal is to make it to 100 before Jan 2, 2023, when I turn 71. The problem for me is that I've already done so many routes here in Joshua Tree that it's hard to find ones that are not either too hard or are too unpleasant (there are a lot of crappy grainfests here.) Of the 74 new routes I've done this year only two were here in JT! There are some other areas nearby, New Jack City and Fairview Mt. being the best. Beyond those places, Red Rocks and Sierra Eastside are good locations for new ticks.

Onward to 100!

Given how many routes you've done and years you have been climbing, doing that many new routes is impressive. 100 new routes would be quite an accomplishment.

Lori Milaswrote:

Have you been over to King Dome lately to try Arturo's Special or La Copine?  I love those routes!  Also, there are two new ones at Cave Corridor.  

Okay, I have more important and not so important things to respond to and post about, but is La Copine your much beloved place to eat????!? 

Yes, this reflects my priorities and lusts in life.

Seriously, I'm sure that dreaded c word popped into pretty much everyone's head, as sick as you've been, and as long as this has been going on. But....that would've been way up on all your medicos lists too. So then you get to the less obvious, harder to sort out stuff. Stick with it, lady, but also be you, too, and remember you're a climber. Sounds sorts stupid, but it really is applicable to just getting up and putting our pants on. 

The medical stuff is great....sorta. Sorta not. My voyage lately is a piece of cake compared to the frustration of what you (and Tony too) have bern through, but I've been very struck by the separation and compartmentalization of it all.

I am a depressive, well managed, but it's fact. I take bupropion, also fact. 

Okay, so I'm sure the bupropion was considered in the anesthesia plan, pain management, etc.

But nowhere along the line was there any discussion at all of the depression itself, or how general anesthesia can feed into it. Or depression as a comorbidity factor. Even though there's tons of scholarly stuff, there's still the tendency to separate mental from health, even with the brain being right there in the only body we got.

Anyway, this was part of what I was thinking sonewhere in the middle of getting only 2 or 3 hours of sleep at most, in two sessions, and for more than a week.

The variable being general anesthesia.

My usually mildly cranky knees have been happy the whole time too. 

Last night? I finally had something closer to normal.

And my knees are slightly grumpy.

That's almost 10 days. 

And, I had a pretty good wallop of depression too....

...with the high street value narcotics sitting in the next room.

And no, Lori, the overdose drug didn't come home, nor even a whisper of any indication of that being considered, even with bupropion highlighted in red on the notes.

Now, don't get me wrong, everyone in the whole process has been wonderful, did their jobs, and care. 

It just didn't sync very well, because of how we put mental health in an entirely separate box. I think it also has a whole lot to do with it being a soft skill, that's not precise. Medicine, western medicine at least, likes precise. Do this, that happens. The soft stuff takes time, too. 

Anyway. Rant over.

For now. Personally, I intend to stay feisty.

Next post will be more fun, promise! But stay feisty, Lori. You're really quite good at it!

Best, Helen 

wendy weisswrote:

I'm doing PT for my back and foot issues and am considering platelet replacement therapy if the PT doesn't solve the problems. (Anyone here have experience with PRT?) I considered trying to log 76 new gym routes before my 76th birthday, but I'm more than two months past my 75th and haven't kept track, so it's too late to start now.    

Wendy, my sister had excellent results with PRP (platelet-rich plasma injections) for elbow issues.  I think that is probably the same as you are talking about.  Good luck with your issues!

It's not too late to start your 76 routes goal! for a couple of years now, I've loosely been tracking indoor and outdoor climbing.  since January 1, I've done 122 gym routes over 17 days there this year.  Not sure how many of those are "new".  I usually head straight to the new routes when I go to the gym, but they don't change them a huge amount so I'm not sure how many of those are repeats vs new.

Okay, routes for birthdays!

My idea became 65 new to me routes for my 65th, which was back in January. But, it is all too easy for me to get enthusiastic, then "fail". Yet again. That's unproductive and pointless. So, I made it open ended. Just start, let it meander along however it works out.

Very unsurprisingly, it became far more about people, than routes.

The "birthday book" idea started while I was at City, and I began it with a spiral notebook from Tracy's General store, and a COR sticker. Odds and ends added.

The 20 routes total in it so far is sorta pitiful....if it was just about numbers. But it's so much better than ticking routes, for me anyway.

Some of you will remember COR climbing ranger Sam Parker. We got together on one of his very last days in Almo, before heading back to school.

And, on like that. There's a fair number of Over 50s in there, too, from the get togethers. One of the silliest "ticks" is just the rock face at the group camp, a scramble at most, but me and the 9 year old were the climbers. I flailed. He....well. You all know how that story goes, eh? 

The last 2 pages in there?

No climbing at all.

But super special, City of Rocks delivers yet again encounters, with total strangers....and OLH.

I've got a trip report going on MP, but it's way out of date. 

Will I get to 65 new routes? Some time before I die ir just lose interest in recording them?

Maybe. Maybe not.

Either way, I've found my people. 

Forever.

Best, Helen 

Old lady Hwrote:

Okay, I have more important and not so important things to respond to and post about, but is La Copine your much beloved place to eat????!? 

Yes, this reflects my priorities and lusts in life.

Seriously, I'm sure that dreaded c word popped into pretty much everyone's head, as sick as you've been, and as long as this has been going on. But....that would've been way up on all your medicos lists too. So then you get to the less obvious, harder to sort out stuff. Stick with it, lady, but also be you, too, and remember you're a climber. Sounds sorts stupid, but it really is applicable to just getting up and putting our pants on. 

The medical stuff is great....sorta. Sorta not. My voyage lately is a piece of cake compared to the frustration of what you (and Tony too) have bern through, but I've been very struck by the separation and compartmentalization of it all.

I am a depressive, well managed, but it's fact. I take bupropion, also fact. 

Okay, so I'm sure the bupropion was considered in the anesthesia plan, pain management, etc.

But nowhere along the line was there any discussion at all of the depression itself, or how general anesthesia can feed into it. Or depression as a comorbidity factor. Even though there's tons of scholarly stuff, there's still the tendency to separate mental from health, even with the brain being right there in the only body we got.

Anyway, this was part of what I was thinking sonewhere in the middle of getting only 2 or 3 hours of sleep at most, in two sessions, and for more than a week.

The variable being general anesthesia.

My usually mildly cranky knees have been happy the whole time too. 

Last night? I finally had something closer to normal.

And my knees are slightly grumpy.

That's almost 10 days. 

And, I had a pretty good wallop of depression too....

...with the high street value narcotics sitting in the next room.

And no, Lori, the overdose drug didn't come home, nor even a whisper of any indication of that being considered, even with bupropion highlighted in red on the notes.

Now, don't get me wrong, everyone in the whole process has been wonderful, did their jobs, and care. 

It just didn't sync very well, because of how we put mental health in an entirely separate box. I think it also has a whole lot to do with it being a soft skill, that's not precise. Medicine, western medicine at least, likes precise. Do this, that happens. The soft stuff takes time, too. 

Anyway. Rant over.

For now. Personally, I intend to stay feisty.

Next post will be more fun, promise! But stay feisty, Lori. You're really quite good at it!

Best, Helen 

You brat! You beat me to the punch on a discussion of mental health. Have you noticed the topic of sex didn’t take off too well but I’ll bet mental health gets even more crickets. Helen I love you to death, I truly do.

I’m really surprised that they didn’t send you home with a Narcan inhaler because even Tony was prescribed that before each surgery. It saves lives. I’ve used it on my own son and on his friend. To watch a gray lifeless body spring back to life in a minute or two is miraculous. Why should anyone have to wait minutes or an hour for paramedics to arrive. All that aside opiate overdose is one thing, and the propensity of some to become addicted, and how once addicted it’s nearly impossible to become unaddicted.  I was so sad and devastated and just done with the whole subject when I last held my son in my arms. But that has little to do with just mental health conditions like depression. We are all just chemical soup and some of us don’t have great soup. I can say Tony has never had anything like a real chemical disorder that would cause depression and so he just couldn’t imagine. Plus he’s really good at avoidance. You may recall that part of what factored into my moving to Joshua Tree was that I was going through increasingly severe SAD up in Sacramento every winter.  It’s really something to find yourself sitting in a car in the rain in a parking lot sobbing your eyes out for no good reason except it’s gray and you crave light. Inevitably within 48 hours of arriving in Joshua Tree I was all smiles. I am so happy you’re talking about this and maybe more will too – – as part of a climber’s  journey.

So I am in a real personal quandary right now. I talked with the New Mexico doctor just now and I put them on speakerphone because I needed a second opinion. His whole message was to emphasize that there is absolutely nothing more important than getting rid of the parasites and I am not rid of the parasites. He said he has done this many thousands of times, he knows what he’s doing, and just do what he says! And where we’re at right now it is—I successfully finished a 5 day protocol to get rid of Ascaris—and now I am to do a 10 day protocol of drinking a very strong herbal concoction three times a day. That should be no big deal except it was extremely hard on me and I didn’t think I could continue. So he suggested start at 1 ounce and work my way up to 2. Right now arm questioning everything and not quite sure.

Yes the medical establishment doesn’t help… As far as Eisenhower is concerned I’m fine. So I’m not sure what level of sick you have to be before they register some alarm. But I heard that each doctor has some thousands of patients each and that could explain a lot. So we have our Woo-woo very attentive doctors on one side and we have our conventional traditional on the other  hand I don’t know how to navigate.