Climbing around Seattle, WA (compared to the Front Range, CO)

Not Not MP Adminwrote:

I feel like weather is something not being mentioned enough…

The weather in Washington is not that bad. Vantage is always dry and pretty climbable in winter. Leavenworth, Mazama, Spokane, Tieton, Smith, Skaha are good in spring/fall. Western Washington is good in summer except for wildfires. 

The weather has been exceptionally weird this year. Last year I went to Banff in September and came back and then couldn't climb at WW2 until January. This year I made sure to send all my projects by September, well I have been in limbo (and I ripped off the tip of my thumb) the last month because it has been so dry. Contrast the spring, I climbed many many days in light rain and most people didn't climb. 

Petsfed 00wrote:

I think the Front Range has so many climbs because it has so many climbers. Like, why did Castlewood Canyon get developed, except that somebody *needed* to put up a route, and everything worth doing, close to the road, had already been done.

There are a lot fewer garbage crags in the Seattle area than on the front range, but probably a similar quantity of high quality climbing. A lot of it is buried under a long approach/long drive. Like, RMNP style approaches, but with a much higher volume of climbs.

The short season is really the problem. I've climbed in Eldo and on the Flatirons every month of the year, in the same year, without carefully watching weather. I don't expect to ever have that experience at any crag in Washington.

i think petsfed is on drugs a bit here.  the front range has a ton more accessible rock (that doesn't get covered in moss/vegetation if it goes 3 months without traffic...)  the weather is much better.  there are a lot more experienced/knowledgeable developers putting up a lot better routes. my assessment of seattle versus front range in terms of crowds / available routes would be that the front range has 100 times as many climbers, but 10,000 times as much easily accessible rock.  the front range also has a lot more variety in styles of climbing, rock type, climbing season, etc.

JCM is pretty spot on with his assessment (per usual). i would give seattle a C though.  the downsides are just pretty overwhelming.  i don't boulder, but i know several boulderers who moved to seattle and pretty much quit bouldering because they said it sucks.  the one area where seattle is maybe ahead of the front range is alpine climbing, although again RMNP has much easier access and seattle doesn't have anything that compares to the diamond (although liberty bell / wash pass has some really nice easily accessible stuff).  one tricky bit with seattle alpine climbing is that a lot of it is tough to do in a 2 day weekend if you have a real job.  a lot of it really lines up better for 3 day weekends.  another challenge is that a lot of the good alpine climbing can be pretty popular (but that is getting to be the case everywhere).

i think my wife summed up best a while back when we met somebody who wanted to move to seattle from an area with nice, year-round weather and a ton of climbing - "why on earth are they doing that?"

i can see somebody moving up there for a 2 year deal to experience the PNW, but permanently.... not so much.

and if you think front range climbers are weird... lolz...

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

The weather in Washington is not that bad. Vantage is always dry and pretty climbable in winter. Leavenworth, Mazama, Spokane, Tieton, Smith, Skaha are good in spring/fall. Western Washington is good in summer except for wildfires. 

How many days are climbable in each season and how long is each season at these places? 

My guess is that you’re going to get more climbable days in Colorado than Washington just based on weather and access. This goes for roped climbing as well as bouldering. 

Princess Puppy Lovr wrote:

The weather in Washington is not that bad. Vantage is always dry and pretty climbable in winter. Leavenworth, Mazama, Spokane, Tieton, Smith, Skaha are good in spring/fall. Western Washington is good in summer except for wildfires. 

The weather has been exceptionally weird this year. Last year I went to Banff in September and came back and then couldn't climb at WW2 until January. This year I made sure to send all my projects by September, well I have been in limbo (and I ripped off the tip of my thumb) the last month because it has been so dry. Contrast the spring, I climbed many many days in light rain and most people didn't climb. 

Totally agreed. WA get's a bad rap for weather, even people who live here buy into it.  Even in this wonky weather year, my wife and I climbed nearly every week of the year.  And when we didn't, it wasn't due to weather, just regular life stuff.  

It kinda blows my mind seeing places like Vantage busier than ever in July when it is blistering hot and essentially unclimbable, but nearly totally empty in winter when it is perfect there and everything else sucks.

Not Not MP Adminwrote:

How many days are climbable in each season and how long is each season at these places? 

My guess is that you’re going to get more climbable days in Colorado than Washington just based on weather and access. This goes for roped climbing as well as bouldering. 

If you go to any area on MP, you can see the "Prime Climbing Season" to get an idea of when climbing is happening. 

Chris Cwrote:

If you go to any area on MP, you can see the "Prime Climbing Season" to get an idea of when climbing is happening. 

That would only answer part of my question, thanks though! 

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

The weather in Washington is not that bad. Vantage is always dry and pretty climbable in winter. Leavenworth, Mazama, Spokane, Tieton, Smith, Skaha are good in spring/fall. Western Washington is good in summer except for wildfires. 

The weather has been exceptionally weird this year. Last year I went to Banff in September and came back and then couldn't climb at WW2 until January. This year I made sure to send all my projects by September, well I have been in limbo (and I ripped off the tip of my thumb) the last month because it has been so dry. Contrast the spring, I climbed many many days in light rain and most people didn't climb. 

Counterpoint weather perspective:

- While it is helpful having Vantage as a winter crag, it is a fairly mediocre one 2.5 hours away. It's a bummer to have that as your only rock option for months. In the Front Range they have a wider selection of winter options, closer, with better climbing. And if they want to drive 2.5 hours they can go to Shelf, which is a lot better than Vantage.

- Those spring/fall eastside crags are great, but all kind of far. So when it's raining in April, you're still driving 2.5 hours each way (or more) to climb. Which is better, certainly, than no dry rock at all. In the Front Range spring/fall generally offer good conditions most of the time, at easily accessible local crags. Again, a preferable situation in CO.

- Summer is when living in the PNW pays off...right? Not quite. Conditions are good for alpine climbing, but for the bouldering and cragging it is generally too warm for difficult granite. Index turns into a sweatlodge. World Wall gets pretty slippery too.  Summer conditions are better in Squamish and in WA Pass, but now we're right back to driving 3.5 hours to chase good conditions.  

- And then there's the smoke, which can shut down a month of summer climbing. This can happen in CO or CA also, but it isn't as big a deal in those places to lose a month in the summer. You've got 3 months of awesome fall climbing coming up, so you can afford to sit out August. Not so in WA. Summer is all you get, so when you lose even a few weeks of it, that really stings.

This isn't to say that the weather is always bad, or you can't climb every month of the year. You can, for sure. And when the good days at Index come, they are amazing. But the season is just not as reliable or predictable as you would hope, and you have to be flexible and willing to drive to chase the climbable conditions. You can make it work (I played that game for years), but it is a lot nicer to live somewhere you can plan your seasons, and reliably expect good conditions at your local area, for long stretches of the year.

I don't think anyone here is saying that Seattle is terrible for climbing (ok, Slim might be saying that). It's better than a lot of places. Even in terms of weather - I think it beats the New England climate, for instance. But compared to Colorado, the weather, access, and range of nearby options are a big step down. All of this impacts what you can get done as a Seattle weekend warrior, and/or the level of effort required to get out climbing. 

Man, reading this thread just makes me more happy every moment to live in Yakima. Kinda surprised to say that

JCMwrote:

Counterpoint weather perspective:

- While it is helpful having Vantage as a winter crag, it is a fairly mediocre one 2.5 hours away. It's a bummer to have that as your only rock option for months. In the Front Range they have a wider selection of winter options, closer, with better climbing. And if they want to drive 2.5 hours they can go to Shelf, which is a lot better than Vantage.

- Those spring/fall eastside crags are great, but all kind of far. So when it's raining in April, you're still driving 2.5 hours each way (or more) to climb. Which is better, certainly, than no dry rock at all. In the Front Range spring/fall generally offer good conditions most of the time, at easily accessible local crags. Again, a preferable situation in CO.

- Summer is when living in the PNW pays off...right? Not quite. Conditions are good for alpine climbing, but for the bouldering and cragging it is generally too warm for difficult granite. Index turns into a sweatlodge. World Wall gets pretty slippery too.  Summer conditions are better in Squamish and in WA Pass, but now we're right back to driving 3.5 hours to chase good conditions.  

- And then there's the smoke, which can shut down a month of summer climbing. This can happen in CO or CA also, but it isn't as big a deal in those places to lose a month in the summer. You've got 3 months of awesome fall climbing coming up, so you can afford to sit out August. Not so in WA. Summer is all you get, so when you lose even a few weeks of it, that really stings.

This isn't to say that the weather is always bad, or you can't climb every month of the year. You can, for sure. And when the good days at Index come, they are amazing. But the season is just not as reliable or predictable as you would hope, and you have to be flexible and willing to drive to chase the climbable conditions. You can make it work (I played that game for years), but it is a lot nicer to live somewhere you can plan your seasons, and reliably expect good conditions at your local area, for long stretches of the year.

I don't think anyone here is saying that Seattle is terrible for climbing (ok, Slim might be saying that). It's better than a lot of places. Even in terms of weather - I think it beats the New England climate, for instance. But compared to Colorado, the weather, access, and range of nearby options are a big step down. All of this impacts what you can get done as a Seattle weekend warrior, and/or the level of effort required to get out climbing. 

I don’t disagree I just wouldn’t give seattle an F for weather more like a c+. With BC getting a D and Maine/Quebec being Fs.

100% you get more climbable days in Colorado.

My biggest issue with Washington is route volume/locations but that’s not an issue for most people for a year or two.

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

I don’t disagree I just wouldn’t give seattle an F for weather more like a c+. With BC getting a D and Maine/Quebec being Fs.

I think the posters on this thread all kind of agree. There's the people saying "it's not that great" and the people saying "it's not that bad". They're both right; it's somewhere in the middle. It's not an A; it's not a D. There's some minor debate based on preference and bias about whether it's a B or a C+ or whatever, but we're all in the same ballpark. This applies to both the rock resource, the weather, and overall. 

Ian Lauerwrote:

Man, reading this thread just makes me more happy every moment to live in Yakima. Kinda surprised to say that

Full of crime and the climbing is choss, dont go to Yakima

Sam Sluyswrote:

Full of crime and the climbing is choss, dont go to Yakima

Lol, ok. Yep, stay away. Theres no good climbing over here.

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

I don’t disagree I just wouldn’t give seattle an F for weather more like a c+. With BC getting a D and Maine/Quebec being Fs.

100% you get more climbable days in Colorado.

My biggest issue with Washington is route volume/locations but that’s not an issue for most people for a year or two.

I don't think it is fair to rope Seattle route volume / location with the rest of WA 

Dana Walters 1wrote:

I don't think it is fair to rope Seattle route volume / location with the rest of WA 

I mean kinda. Spokane/Portland has quite good route volume for their sizes. Leavenworth would be okayish. I have done a good chunk of all the routes (at my ability) on the Peninsula. Bellingham doesn't really have many options that are easy access (though 7 mile is awesome). I have done like 80% of the climbs in Vantage in my ability range and don't have a realistic good project for winter. I don't really know what I would climb in Tieton if I went at this point. North Bend only has 40 5.12s. Index is really the only crag with good volume of harder routes but good luck getting reliable after work partners/waiting 2+ hours in traffic on weekends.

Then compare all this to Smith 200+ 5.12s or Rumney 200 5.12s with little headache and easy partners. 

So some parts of the state are better but not great. 

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

I mean kinda. Spokane/Portland has quite good route volume for their sizes. Leavenworth would be okayish. I have done a good chunk of all the routes (at my ability) on the Peninsula. Bellingham doesn't really have many options that are easy access (though 7 mile is awesome). I have done like 80% of the climbs in Vantage in my ability range and don't have a realistic good project for winter. I don't really know what I would climb in Tieton if I went at this point. North Bend only has 40 5.12s. Index is really the only crag with good volume of harder routes but good luck getting reliable after work partners/waiting 2+ hours in traffic on weekends.

Then compare all this to Smith 200+ 5.12s or Rumney 200 5.12s with little headache and easy partners. 

So some parts of the state are better but not great. 

I know you were not replying to the OP, but the OP specifically asked for routes 5.9-5.11 so maybe stop spraying about all the 5.12’s ya done and stay on topic Trevstar 

Not Not MP Adminwrote:

I know you were not replying to the OP, but the OP specifically asked for routes 5.9-5.11 so maybe stop spraying about all the 5.12’s ya done and stay on topic Trevstar 

Climbers can be so insecure and easily butthurt about any time someone else talks about their personal experiences, if that happens to be on routes of a higher grade.

Regardless of grade, Trevors point about quantity is legitimate for Seattle local areas. Especially for the easy access North Bend sport climbing. It's an good local resource, but the quantity is finite. When you first move to Seattle, you get to feast on new routes for a couple of years, and this is great. But, a motivated climber can burn through this resource of easy access local climbs at their grade range (whatever that may be) in a few years. After that they are left with mega projects,  repeats, or travelling farther away, which is less motivating unless you are highly inclined toward hard projecting. 

For the OPs grade range, this is also very much the case for Index. There's a ton of 5.11-5.12 there, but at lower grades the quantity is pretty limited. There's a reason that many climbers at Index end up doing the same 10 routes over and over again.

Quantity is much better once you expand to the weekend driving radius. If you expand the radius to include Squamish, the quantity is basically infinite (especially considering the continued pace of new development up there). But within the Seattle easy local day trip distance, it's a lot less than would be ideal.

The Front Range, for all it's issues, really shines on route quantity. This is a great advantage if you are living in the same spot for 10+ years, climb a lot, and enjoy getting on new climbs. You can live in the Front Range for 10 years and not run out of adequate-quality local (within an hour or so)  climbs to onsight. Not really the case in Seattle.

If you're just planning to be there a few years (Here for a good time, not here for a long time), then this issue doesn't really apply. If you went to Seattle for 3 years, plucked the low hanging fruit, then move away, this would actually be a great way to experience a new area and expand your climbing horizons. If that's your plan, I'd actually reccomend going for it. There's some great climbing to be done there, and it is a beautiful region. But it's not an ideal place to settle in for longer term, if rock climbing is your primary focus.

Lol - thank you, JT. Although I don’t mind people having their own side discussions in the thread and have very much appreciated everyone’s opinions. So first off thank you to everyone who has responded!

My initially posting may have not been worded in the best way, as I specifically state “Compared to Front Range, CO”

But I think any major city in the US is a downgrade in climbing compared to the Front Range. The access there is just incredible. I probably should have asked how much of a downgrade is it, which I do feel like I got a sense of in this thread. So again, thank you for everyone who has responded.

I have never climbed in WA soooo maybe I will eat my words here, but… while I do see it being somewhat of a downgrade I can’t see it being THAT much given what I’m looking for. My criteria….

• Spots for some after work sport 5.9-5.11.

Seems like Exit 38/32 can scratch this itch. A downgrade from CCC, but still for getting out and climbing casual sport (I am not one for projecting, just like to get out and enjoy some climbing)

• Long, moderate multipitch trad

Darrington seems perfect for this (I should’ve specified I love slab). Some approaches seem brutal but some seem not that bad (30-90 mins). Also, isn’t this pretty much on par with RMNP/Lumpy? 1.5-2hours from the city and long hikes. The approaches in Rocky are just as brutal (it seems, again I have never climbed in WA)

• Moderate bouldering

Leavenworth seems perfect for this and a major upgrade compared to the front range.

There is no Eldo and Flatirons and that will bum me out. There is Squamish though and as I’ll be working remote I would plan to visit there frequently as it seems to fit my long, moderate multipitch requirement perfectly. I guess if I can bother anyone with another question… how feasible are spur of the moment trips to Squamish? I would (most likely) be sleeping my car, so curious if anyone has any info on how easy that is to do. For example, in Vegas it is tremendously easy to pull off. Just park at the damn right along Charleston with the other dirtbags… and there’s a Albertsons right there! Any info on this would be much appreciated as I feel like Squamish would be my main draw.

Also, re the weather (again I have never climbed in WA so I’m prepared to eat my words here) but JCM you state that summer in PNW is too hot for cragging. I think the same could be said for the front range. Almost all my partners rarely climbing from Late June - Early September unless it’s alpine. There are a few shaded crags on the south side of BoCan that are tolerable but get absolutely swamped. 

And one more time, thanks everyone for the beta!!

Just saw your most recent response, JCM. I think that seems like a fair perspective.

I will post an article from Honnold himself though where he (kind of) rips CO climbing!

https://www.westword.com/arts/alex-honnold-of-free-solo-thinks-colorado-climbing-routes-are-mediocre-11387519

Crux Pitch of Comic Reliefwrote:

I’ll be working remote 

Wait - You're working remote? That changes things, vs. being location-bound to a Seattle office. Why choosing Seattle if you have remote work flexibility? There's probably better locations than Seattle proper, if you want to move to the region and have remote work flexibility. That's an entirely different discussion that has happened before on this site. Living in North Bend or Leavenworth would be pretty sweet, if you can find housing (big if there).

Crux Pitch of Comic Reliefwrote:

how feasible are spur of the moment trips to Squamish? I would (most likely) be sleeping my car, so curious if anyone has any info on how easy that is to do. For example, in Vegas it is tremendously easy to pull off. Just park at the damn right along Charleston with the other dirtbags… and there’s a Albertsons right there! Any info on this would be much appreciated as I feel like Squamish would be my main draw.

Totally feasible, but tiring. Its a long drive for a 2 day weekend. If you have 3 or 4 days it is great. In one frenetic summer (in 2016) I did it 10 weekends in a row. I don't regret it, but I don't think I could do that again. I've gotten lazy in my 30s, I guess.  

The Squamish car-sleeping situation is a bit tricky, and always a bit in flux season to season, but it is totally doable if you keep up with the latest info on where they are cracking down. I always had a few secret spots (basically just dirt pullouts) that were about a 15 minutes from town and reliable for sleeping in. You should be able to figure it out.

The most significant challenge for the Squamish weekend is the Friday evening traffic getting out of Seattle and past Everett. If you leave before 6:45ish, you are stuck in some unpleasant traffic. If you leave later, you're getting to Squamish super late. Traffic seemed to get worse each year. Maybe this has improved post-Coivd, with many people now getting to telework on Fridays? Not sure, ask the folks still living there. For Sunday return traffic you want to leave Squamish at around 6:30 PM to miss Vancouver traffic, getting you home at 10:00. It makes for a rough Monday, but the climbing is worth it.

Other key beta: Always use the Lynden border crossing. A few extra miles, but less border wait. Exit I-5 at Bellingham.

Crux Pitch of Comic Reliefwrote:

Also, re the weather (again I have never climbed in WA so I’m prepared to eat my words here) but JCM you state that summer in PNW is too hot for cragging. I think the same could be said for the front range. Almost all my partners rarely climbing from Late June - Early September unless it’s alpine. There are a few shaded crags on the south side of BoCan that are tolerable but get absolutely swamped. 

PNW summer is for sure better than Front Range summer. Cooler, and no thunderstorms. It just isn't quite as ideal as you'd hope for your main rock season. This is more an issue for the conditions-sensitive hard projecting types; its totally fine in the summer for fun evening sport climbing at Exit 38, just a bit sweaty. The other notable difference is in CO the summer is kind of the off season. You are fine with the summer sucking since you have 3 months of awesome fall conditions waiting for you at the end. Whereas in WA the summer is your season to climb; fall isn't really reliable (locally to Seattle at least) so you don't have the luxury of waiting out the heat over the summer. 

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Re: Honnold quotes in that article about CO: He is totally right, and he is just saying what everyone knows to be true. CO Front Range climbing isn't especially good on the basis of average route quality; its just convenient, there is a lot of it, and the season is long. All of which is great for the weekend warrior.

You'll probably find that the best days on the best routes in the PNW are better than the best days on the best routes in CO. There's just less of those great days for the typical climber in Seattle. It's a tradeoff. 

Not Not MP Adminwrote:

I know you were not replying to the OP, but the OP specifically asked for routes 5.9-5.11 so maybe stop spraying about all the 5.12’s ya done and stay on topic Trevstar 

Fair enough but in my defense:

1. don’t assume I climb 5.12 I just walk around licking them

2. Quantifying 5.11 or under includes a bunch of routes no one climbs ever. There are entire walls in vantage that have been unclimbed for years, they are mostly death choss like maybe 60% of all vantage routes

3. There are many many mossed over 5.9-5.11s in western Washington so with a scrub they would be clean. There are many of us resurrecting old 5.12s here so the 5.12s are a better quantification of what can be climbed 

4. It’s hard to exclude/include multipitch 5.9s when I was trying to get a quick count

5. Boulders are debatable since the beta for western Washington is out of date

6. I don’t wanna argue about what a trad climb is 

There is nearly infinite amount of rock to be bolted, a lot of people just think they are above 3.5 star climbs.