Climber Charles Barrett Arrested for Yosemite Sexual Assaults

Mark Pilatewrote:

Seems someone read “Brian Sykes for Dummies”…and didn’t understand it. 

Nope. Just another case of the eskimo bowline I defended the other day in a different thread. A bunch of internet folk who have severe dunning Krueger problems.

Your biologist friend tried painting a picture about me that is nothing close to what I said. I am going to continue to prefer taking my biological info from a PHD award winning individual.

Edit: Bruno, I have already made it clear that I do not intend to engage in your tom-foolery. Take your own advice and take the post down, wasting space. I only meant to make it clear that saying "there is no difference in biology of men" is absolutely incorrect. Ya'll are the ones who try to make that statement about rape. 

@ Erik, I love biology, and talking about biology and genetics, but there's no way I'm going to go down that road on this thread. Honestly, with no bad intentions and in good faith, if you want to talk about genetics, ancestry, behavior, and so on, PM me, or start another thread, and I'll respond there.

Back to the topic:

This is a broad, important, thread, and I think the angle that we have been exploring for the last pages, about how we can educate our children, is relevant.  

One point: when I, or we, talk about saying things to our children like, "Don't get drunk around people you don't trust," I think this is a very important piece of advice, but of course it is only a small part of a much larger message to stay aware, assess risk, trust your instincts, try not to place yourself in vulnerable situations, and so on.  

Of course, this is not always going to be possible, and even if somebody does everything right, assaults will occur, through ABSOLUTELY NO FAULT OF THE VICTIM.

So I am going to push back again on the idea that we should not tell our children to remain vigilant because that is a form of victim shaming.  Such a stance seems to defy common sense and reality, and I think it's dangerous.  

We can, and must, separate the very real need to furnish young people with survival skills, from the need to change culture to avoid victim shaming and blaming.

Andrew Rice wrote:

Hi Wendy, I think technically you are right but there's also an aspect of context that is important. Here we are in a topic devoted to talking about a criminal charge of real sexual assault against a real person. We also know that other women who were harmed by the accused are reading this thread. So is THIS the place to talk about "risk mitigation" and that we should teach our kids not to get shit faced with strangers lest they get raped? Especially when, as far as we know, none of the before-mentioned women were assaulted by CB because they got drunk or let themselves get roofied or whatever it is that everyone posting their thoughts on rape prevention thinks women, in general, need to do? To me that smacks of second-guessing the very real women who have suffered harm from this person.

I'm sure there are plenty of other forums for discussing rape avoidance strategies.

Andrew, I was responding to what Sarah (and several other posters) have said. This discussion has drifted pretty far from your original post. I don't mean to insinuate anything about CB's victims.

Bruno Schullwrote:

So I am going to push back again on the idea that we should not tell our children to remain vigilant because that is a form of victim shaming.  Such a stance seems to defy common sense and reality, and I think it's dangerous.  

We can, and must, separate the very real need to furnish young people with survival skills, from the need to change culture to avoid victim shaming and blaming.

Dude, take a deep breath. NOBODY has said you shouldn't teach your children good survival skills. What we're saying is that here, in a thread about a REAL rape, against a real woman, is probably not the place to have that discussion because it smacks of second guessing real victims of real crimes. Start another thread if you want.

Mikey Schaefer wrote:

Given the fact that I've known Charlie since 2001 or so and I hadn't heard anything about assault or sexual assault and that I first learnt about it was from this thread, I wouldn't be surprised if Alex was in the same position.  I knew Charlie had gone to prison but I was mistaken and misinformed on what he'd gone to prison for.  

Sorry for posting above your comment, Mikey, but this is that weird MP thing where it limits # of posts. First, thanks for your candid post. I appreciate it. I would be curious to know what you were told he had spent a year in a Federal penitentiary for? To me, that alone, is pretty unsavory. 

Andrew Rice wrote:

I can't say when Alex learned the less savory side of CB's personality but I feel confident it wasn't reading the press release about the arrest. Some of the victims knew AH. 

Given the fact that I've known Charlie since 2001 or so and I hadn't heard anything about assault or sexual assault and that I first learnt about it was from this thread, I wouldn't be surprised if Alex was in the same position.  I knew Charlie had gone to prison but I was mistaken and misinformed on what he'd gone to prison for.  

Andrew Ricewrote:

Dude, take a deep breath. NOBODY has said you shouldn't teach your children good survival skills. What we're saying is that here, in a thread about a REAL rape, against a real woman, is probably not the place to have that discussion because it smacks of second guessing real victims of real crimes. Start another thread if you want.

This is the place to talk about any topic you want. Genetics, survival skills, the law. Just the way MP threads go. Part of the process.

@ Andy, I can see where you're coming from, but, if you read back through the thread, you can see that there are voices who have litterally said that suggesting to your kids that they be careful who they drink with is the same as putting your arm around them after they have been raped and telling them that it was their fault, and others trying to shout down the voices suggesting that young people should be taught survival skills.

Where does a discussion of what survival skills young people need belong?  Well, seeing as we've covered so much meaningful terrain here, from the abstract philosophical underpinnings of innocent until proven guilty, to the intricacies of enabling culture, I think a discussion of how to lessen the incidence of sexual assault, in all it's forms, it entirely appropriate.  

Most people are aware of ways to avoid dangerous situations and about consent and lots of the topics we’ve been talking about. Maybe the biggest place for improvement that can have serious downstream effects is in speaking out against casual objectification and sexualization of people. I think our culture is trending this way but obviously slower than we’d like. Although, we, as a society, also seem to want to be able to objectify and sexualize ourselves without others doing the same.

Mikey Schaeferwrote:

Given the fact that I've known Charlie since 2001 or so and I hadn't heard anything about assault or sexual assault and that I first learnt about it was from this thread, I wouldn't be surprised if Alex was in the same position.  I knew Charlie had gone to prison but I was mistaken and misinformed on what he'd gone to prison for.  

afaik we don't have confirmation what he went to prison for

there is a claim from a brand new, anonymous poster about what he did (i am anonymous also but make no factual claims, only point out evidence)

there is a barely legible photo of the first page of a sentencing document with CB's name, but no crime

there are restraining order photos that seem to be legit, but no specifics on a conviction

there is a reference on the supertopo thread that his fellow inmate at taft felt he got a "raw deal" but we don't know the specific crime or who this JEleazarian is

there is a lot of speculation from andrew who claims to have more and more inside knowledge of people as the thread progresses, including michael jackson and now honnold

and there is mikey's "mistaken and misinformed" knowledge which may actually be correct because nothing credible in this thread contradicts it

the court of internet public opinion is like a game of telephone, 20 pages into a thread most everyone is making up facts

Erik Strandwrote:

Seems you misunderstand what I said and you recognize it, but you want to disagree with me. An interesting stance to take. I'm not going to bother engaging with such ludicrousness. Also, I can share a video of a PHD biologist going on about how there are somewhere around 12 major "families" than can be fairly easily identified through testing of your genetics. 

Please, tell me which of these "families of men" is the rape family...that would be good to know about.

The situation here, based on the documentation posted about CB's past behavior, seems to be about intimate partner violence rather than parties and situational awareness. CB was engaging in behaviors such as stalking that are part of a pattern of coercive control. This is something that we as climbers can do something about - supporting victims and providing consequences for people we know who engage in abuse. This means that we do have to point out abusive people just like we point out dangerous climbing partners. We wouldn't support someone who drops people, right? 

Situational awareness is fine, but it is not the whole or even the most important part of the conversation. This whole conversation reminds me of a self-defense class I helped teach. The head instructor spent a lot of time telling women to lock their windows, park their cars under street lights, and look for people waiting under their cars waiting to hamstring them (very unlikely). Not one word about intimate partner or acquaintance violence. Statistically, the women taking the class were more to experience violence from someone they knew than some stranger in the bushes. When teaching the class, we did not prepare the students for the real risks they would face. 

Face Palmwrote:

there is a reference on the supertopo thread that his fellow inmate at taft felt he got a "raw deal" but we don't know the specific crime or who this JEleazarian is

It's not a rocket science.
Any person with an average IQ (or slightly below) should be able to figure this out either on Supertopo or elsewhere.
https://www.facebook.com/john.eleazarian
https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-eleazarian-9890a629/

Erik Strandwrote:

Seems you misunderstand what I said and you recognize it, but you want to disagree with me. An interesting stance to take. I'm not going to bother engaging with such ludicrousness. Also, I can share a video of a PHD biologist going on about how there are somewhere around 12 major "families" than can be fairly easily identified through testing of your genetics. 

Tell me you don’t understand human biology or genetics without telling me you don’t understand human biology or genetics. 

Chad Millerwrote:

Tell me you don’t understand human biology or genetics without telling me you don’t understand human biology or genetics. 

C'mon man. He has a phd from YouTubeU.

Deirdrewrote:

Situational awareness is fine, but it is not the whole or even the most important part of the conversation. This whole conversation reminds me of a self-defense class I helped teach. The head instructor spent a lot of time telling women to lock their windows, park their cars under street lights, and look for people waiting under their cars waiting to hamstring them (very unlikely). Not one word about intimate partner or acquaintance violence. Statistically, the women taking the class were more to experience violence from someone they knew than some stranger in the bushes. When teaching the class, we did not prepare the students for the real risks they would face. 

Why are you so dismissive of minimizing risk?  

"Intimate partner or acquaintance violence" is one form of assault; stranger violence is another form. We read about assaults in the news every day. From both.

You seem intent on poo-pooing one and promoting another.

The things that self-defense instructor was teaching was good advice, but you quickly brushed it aside as not a "real" risk.

FrankPSwrote:

Why are you so dismissive of minimizing risk?  

"Intimate partner or aquaintance violence" is one form of assault; stranger violence is another form. We read about assaults in the news every day. From both.

You seem intent on poo-pooing one and promoting another.

The things that self-defense instructor was teaching was good advice, but you quickly brushed it aside as not a "real" risk.

The CDC analyzed the murders of women in 18 states from 2003 to 2014, finding a total of 10,018 deaths. Of those, 55 percent were intimate partner violence-related, meaning they occurred at the hands of a former or current partner or the partner’s family or friends. In 93 percent of those cases, the culprit was a current or former romantic partner. The report also bucks the strangers-in-dark-alleys narrative common to televised crime dramas: Strangers perpetrated just 16 percent of all female homicides, fewer than acquaintances and just slightly more than parents.

If a self-defense instructor taught something like 60 of 60 minutes on less than half of the risk, do you think it was a good use of time?

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/wr/mm6628a1.htm?s_cid=mm6628a1_w

DAMMIT BLOCKED

But you're the one brushing aside her critique of real vs imagined risks. In the CDC's research, 16% of the murders were from strangers. That is not a lot of creepers getting into your backseat and peering at you in the rearview once you get out of town or whatever cliche comes to mind about random psychos.

petzl logicwrote:

If a self-defense instructor taught something like 60 of 60 minutes on less than half of the risk, do you think it was a good use of time?

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/wr/mm6628a1.htm?s_cid=mm6628a1_w

That's kind of funny. Now you're questioning the value of the self-defense class? Or how many minutes of precautions versus how many minutes of self-defense?  Ask Deirdre. Maybe the students can get their money back.

Todd, being the best parent you can is all you can do and no matter how hard you try it will never be perfect..   your posts certainly did seem to be in PC mode. I obviously argue that the parent has the responsibility to cut through all the BS and get the job done.   "I wouldn't do that shit if I were you!"  and No I do Not see why its politically incorrect for a parent to not let their kid dress like a sex worker.  All that being said no one seems to have the answers for keeping people out of abusive relationships. Like  a moth to the flame many keep going back for more... ....  I will say again that drugs and alcohol make everything worse and more risky.  is what it is. .. Pretty lady ain't got no friend till the candy man comes around again....   PS.  absolutely nothing I have said is intended to comment on the OP. It is all just general discussion about the problems humans face... 

Face Palmwrote:

afaik we don't have confirmation what he went to prison for

there is a claim from a brand new, anonymous poster about what he did (i am anonymous also but make no factual claims, only point out evidence)

there is a barely legible photo of the first page of a sentencing document with CB's name, but no crime

there are restraining order photos that seem to be legit, but no specifics on a conviction

there is a reference on the supertopo thread that his fellow inmate at taft felt he got a "raw deal" but we don't know the specific crime or who this JEleazarian is

there is a lot of speculation from andrew who claims to have more and more inside knowledge of people as the thread progresses, including michael jackson and now honnold

and there is mikey's "mistaken and misinformed" knowledge which may actually be correct because nothing credible in this thread contradicts it

the court of internet public opinion is like a game of telephone, 20 pages into a thread most everyone is making up facts

Lets lay it out again-

Early 2005, CB committed a crime in Yosemite  which involved harassment ,damage to property & threats, etc. 

Feb 2007-Aug 2007 was convicted and spent 8 months  in Taft Federal Prison Inmate #62086-097   ( see letters)

Oct 15 2008 CB attacks girl in Buttermilks ( see Sherriffs Report)

Oct 22 2008  Felony Complaint re: above attack filed in Inyo Superior Court ( see document)

Feb 28 2009 Sentencing Hearing ( means he was convicted ) SICF-08-47179-002 see quote " barely legible photo" 

Next CB does jail time in Inyo County. 52 week Batterers Course ,5 yrs probation

Special Conditions of 5yr Probation: Do Not Harass Victim # SICF-08-47179-002. ( see document)

Nov 2008 & March 2014  Same victim is granted restraining orders in Placer County Superior Court ( see documents)

March 2007, Jan 2012 &  2014 Same victim is granted Criminal Protective Orders from Inyo County Superior Court ( see documents )

(7 years of restraining orders ...)

Not done yet:

June 8,2022 CB calls same victim @ 1140pm . Placer County Sherriff Incident # P220602246

Note: The above is just one persons documented experience with CB.