Van vs Truck & trailer Family Edition

Having a pooper in the van is nice for saving the environment.  I  like  knowing that we are not contributing to the toilet paper ranch  that  surrounds most  popular boondock  campsites..  even  Walmart's that are not 24hr and  truck stops  with no  facilities  it's super handy. it's  annoying to empty  and  clean  but worth its weight in gold during black  fly, mosquito and deer fly season.. 

I think for a fam with 1 baby that already has a van, stick with it and mount that chair. Just for diaper changing and other baby activities, much easier to just hop in the back and take care of business. Get some more mileage out of your van and go for the camper later. There will be plenty of time.

John Clarkwrote:

Dylan, teardrop being an option only if I paired it with a truck with a built out/slide into bed camping setup. And that probably once the kid is a bit older. Just trying to brainstorm and get opinions from people who have different setups for climbing trips with kid(s).

Is that a climbing shoe air freshener? No offense but I can only imagine the smell, lol!

tenesmuswrote:

Is that a climbing shoe air freshener? No offense but I can only imagine the smell, lol!

Hung them under the vent fan so any smells get sucked out. It actually works perfectly or I probably wouldn’t have a wife and a kid on the way haha

I would worry about the safety of a van with a camper build in it. If you were to get in a wreck, debris would fly everywhere, and an infant in a child seat could get really injured.

Not what everyone is looking for, but I am very happy with my truck + 10x14' wall tent with wood stove. You can take it anywhere (provided there's a flat enough space for the tent) and it costs a fraction of the price of a van or trailer, and requires no maintenance and very minimal storage. Takes me 10 minutes to set up the whole thing. 

My wife is extremely happy with having a large, blazing hot hang out space for nightime during winter climbing trips in the desert (I am too). It easily sleeps 4 adults with plenty of spare room for the kitchen, stove, and lounging space. 

Also, this combo is the only realistic way to have a warm, enclosed hang out space at areas that require real 4x4ing to access. For example, where the above photo was taken, a truck bed camper or lifted sprinter would be at serious risk of tipping over on the road in. 

christoph benellswrote:

I would worry about the safety of a van with a camper build in it. If you were to get in a wreck, debris would fly everywhere, and an infant in a child seat could get really injured.

That's fair. We definitely saw that when our first van wrecked. One of the consequences of that wreck was us really thinking about what came apart where, and why. It was somewhat vindicating to see that the things we built ourselves, with quality materials, faired a lot better than the stuff the previous owner had built with cheap and salvaged, inappropriate materials.

This is non-exhaustive, do your own diligence, but the major thing is to make sure that everything structural is made of solid wood or metal, and is strongly attached to the metal of the vehicle. The next major thing is to avoid structural materials that are easily compromised by moisture.

Particle board adhered to the wall with 2-sided tape is not gonna cut it. 1/4" thick particle board toenailed to the metal with finishing screws is definitely not gonna cut it. Glue is not structural. Wet particle board is definitely not structural.

The other thing, which has less to do with crash-worthiness, is to think about how constant vibration is going to affect a given construction method. What works for a house probably won't work here.

Petsfed 00wrote:

That's fair. We definitely saw that when our first van wrecked. One of the consequences of that wreck was us really thinking about what came apart where, and why. It was somewhat vindicating to see that the things we built ourselves, with quality materials, faired a lot better than the stuff the previous owner had built with cheap and salvaged, inappropriate materials.

This is non-exhaustive, do your own diligence, but the major thing is to make sure that everything structural is made of solid wood or metal, and is strongly attached to the metal of the vehicle. The next major thing is to avoid structural materials that are easily compromised by moisture.

Particle board adhered to the wall with 2-sided tape is not gonna cut it. 1/4" thick particle board toenailed to the metal with finishing screws is definitely not gonna cut it. Glue is not structural. Wet particle board is definitely not structural.

The other thing, which has less to do with crash-worthiness, is to think about how constant vibration is going to affect a given construction method. What works for a house probably won't work here.

One more thing, which should go without saying but your brainspace with a baby is surprisingly limited - think about where you're storing your heavy/sharp items. it only takes one propane canister falling off a high shelf when you slam on the brakes to really be a wakeup call about flying objects inside the van when you have a kid in there. And, again with the newborn brain, actually close your drawers before driving! Knives flying around is also no good.

Every option has it's pros and cons and everyone's situation is unique. e.g. do you need AWD/4WD on your commuters.

I did the math a number of years ago and it was cheaper for long term ownership (I did the math for 5+ years) to have 3 vehicles (this was when we had our second kid). But I don't buy new, expensive vehicles; I look for older but low mileage/ excellent condition ones.

Currently we have

• A top of the line plug in Prius (it was 8 years old with under 30K miles when I bought it) that is the car that gets used for everything unless we need the capabilities of another one. Fits 4 adults and a dog easily. I get around 60 mpg on average. Because it's used first the other vehicles don't get that many miles on them.
• Then we have a Subaru as a second commuter / ski trips car. It's probably time to upgrade from that to a small SUV like a Rav-4 or CRV. A limitation is a small SUV that gets good mpg, which is good for commuting or ski trips doesn't tow much. A medium size SUV that is rugged (like a 4runner) would be the best vehicle for me if I could only own one vehicle (in fact that's what I had for years), it can go anywhere, can tow quite a bit, and has room for all the stuff, but they only get about 17-18 mpg.
• Finally a 4x4 diesel truck / camper rig. It's only used as needed for camping trips, towing, home depot runs, off road.

If I were you I'd probably keep the van for the time being. And get a tent like this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0788C4N1R/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I got a tent like this for car camping when I don't want to drive the truck for a long drive or a weekend trip. But it's also great as a second bedroom for a van/camper. It sets up really quickly. You can stand up in it to change. It's dark so you can sleep in the daytime. So you'll pack everything you need in the van and once you get to your campsite you set up the tent and can move a bunch of stuff into it and clear space in the van, have a place where the kid can sleep during the day. Have a place where the wife can sleep in in the mornings while you're making coffee and starting the day.

A trailer has the benefits of making your tow vehicle two vehicles in one. You can drive just the vehicle as a commuter or add the trailer if you want plenty of room and amenities. The drawbacks are you'll probably want to drive at 59 mph (for mpg and safety) so trips take about 20% longer, you spend more in gas, it can be a pain to find a parking space / turn around, etc.

On the other topic... congratulations. Having a kid is the hardest thing I've ever done, but the most rewarding. Keep in mind the baby stage (0-12 months) is the hardest but also goes the quickest. When you are worn out from no sleep and taking care of it 24/7 remember you'll only have that baby for a short time and enjoy it. Tame your expectations for how much you'll be able to or want to do during that stage. Then you'll have a toddler for twice as long from 12-36 months. Still a lot of work, but different, less time taking care of it's basic needs and it being 24 hours, it's more starting to watch out for it and spend time teaching and having fun. Then a little kid from 3 years to 6 years. Starting to climb. More fun things are possible. Enjoy!

Congrats! 

From my experience: 

• It's really nice to have somewhere warm and comfy for nap time during those early years. 
• Furnace/heater keeps the kids sleeping happily when temps dip below freezing.
• You will need much more cargo room for kid stuff than you think.'
• Spontaneity decreases once kids hit grade school. Plan for fewer but longer trips (thanksgiving, spring break, winter break, summer break).

As the family has grown we've had:

1) e350 Van for 2 adults with stove, sink and one bed platform. Added a 3rd seat to e350 for the baby. Single bed platform was big enough for the three of us when he was an infant. The van didn't have a heater which made below-freezing overnight temps difficult with a 6-month old. Heater recommended if you will see sub-freezing nights. Sold within a year of becoming parents. This could have worked if we added a heater, pop-top and eventually a fourth seat but would have required major re-build.

2)  3/4 ton pickup with pop-up camper. Great space for three. Cramped for 4. No headroom on the cabover bed makes lounging on rain days a bit tough. Nice to take camper off of truck if in the same campsite for a week so that we could drive to climbing zones without having to break camp. Truck was a bit much for daily commuter with bad mileage and stiff suspension when unloaded. Beware of gross vehicle weight ratings with 1/2 ton trucks and built-out campers. We could have made this work through grade school but I wanted a smaller commuter.

3) Pop-up A-frame trailer pulled by SUV. Much roomier for sleeping family of 4 with grade-school kids. 2 fullish-size beds. Easy to leave behind in camp while you go climb. More options for daily commuter beyond full-size truck. Need somewhere to store it. A bit of a hassle to hook up, tow, fill the tanks etc. for weekend trips (would rather tent camp if good weather) but great for 5+ day trips where the extra space is welcome. So far this has been a great option for our current life situation. Easily easily fits multiple crash pads, ice-chest/cooler, rack, rope, kids toys and bikes etc without having to strap a bunch of crap to the car. I think we will stick with this configuration for quite a while.

Slightly off topic... my family grew and we decided put our van up for sale. Located outside New Paltz. Might work with an older kid if you got an extra seat, but not a baby.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/123074594/fs-chevy-express-2500-low-top-adventure-van-asking-10800

We went from “built out” minivan to A frame popup and love it. Easy to pull with v-6 and Lots of space. Faster than setting up a tent, so works well even for short trips. 

We had success with this 14 ft JaySwift. Just big enough for a pack and play. Little fridge, furnace, stove. Even a/c if we go to an RV park. I did have to get the axle flipped because clearance was shit.

For context, wife and I slept in the back of the truck for 7 years on many weekends and summers. We did it once with a baby and started shopping. When baby wakes up at 5 and the sun doesn’t come up until 8, that furnace is money. 

We've got a 13ft fiberglass trailer with 2 kids. We had a truck camper but it wasn't quite big enough and it was annoying having to pack it all up whenever you needed to use the vehicle while on a trip. With the trailer we unhook it and then have our truck to run into town or go to a crag a few miles away. I imagine with a van there's less packing up to do if you need it for a quick run somewhere but it's nice to have a vehicle that doesn't need to be packed. Also with a truck and trailer we can throw bikes and gear in the truck bed and keep the trailer free of clutter.

Gloweringwrote:

Every option has it's pros and cons and everyone's situation is unique. e.g. do you need AWD/4WD on your commuters.

I did the math a number of years ago and it was cheaper for long term ownership (I did the math for 5+ years) to have 3 vehicles (this was when we had our second kid). But I don't buy new, expensive vehicles; I look for older but low mileage/ excellent condition ones.

my analysis yielded the same exact results.  My wife and I each have an older, daily commuter car and our 3rd vehicle is an '06 Xterra that tows our 2300lb pop up. couldn't ask for a better (reasonably priced) setup for a family of 4.

the pop up trailers/campers have shit tons of room, real kitchen, you can stand up to cook and the beds are pretty far apart...   I just really don't like towing. pulled into a truck stop today with my work trailer and unfortunately they were repaving so i could not do the usual loop around.. had to back up and turn around... not bad there but can really suck on a 4th class road.... 

We had a ton of fun with our kids and a pop up. The pop up is more fun for kids, it's like a tent, rain and wind are very apparent. That said, on your average camping trip you will put it up before you leave, to check it and load up, then put it down, then put it up when you arrive, then put it down when you leave the campsite, then put it up when you get home to clean it, then put it down and hope to God mice don't nuke it. Then next trip do it all again. Ours was nuked twice by mice, and yes we took precautions. I finally gave it away. We bought it new.

Totally agree a trailer is better than sleeping out of your vehicle. Good to have a really strong way to secure your campsite.