Dude should have died....Partially tied knot

One of my climbing buddies bolted an entire route with a partially tied figure 8 knot...

He has been climbing for over 30 years.... Established at least a hundred routes here in South Africa.

Lynn Hill fell backwards from the chains on a sport route after a similar error. She landed in a tree and was spared. Wasn't either persons' time to go, apparently.

I had a very similar incident when teaching my mom to TR belay. She asked a question so I stopped tying in and never finished the knot. I sat back hard on the rope when I finished the route and the quick cinching of the knot saved me. I didn't notice until I went to untie and then had a strange out of body "I should have died" feeling the rest of the day. 

Check your knots! even if you are with someone new who doesn't know what they are looking at, it still gets you to look at it. 

Lynn has a far greater legacy than that!!!! It is just one lesson that we all ( hopefully) had reinforced through her experience.

I too tied the knot wrong 40 years ago although I just missed the crossing on the eight so a better knot than pictured above.

Now I stop conversing whenever someone is tying any knot.

during a clinic I attended, i asked will gadd a question.  He completely ignored me until he had finished tying in, and only then turned to me with full attention. It was a great lesson and I do the same myself ever since. 

Dam. Might I ask how he was bolting while tied in? Was he being belayed?

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

Dam. Might I ask how he was bolting while tied in? Was he being belayed?

Not sure

I guess that will be Lynn Hill’s legacy. Just give her a break and let it go. Everyone makes mistakes

Lol. Right.

Anyway, the point is... even the GOAT can make this mistake.

BITD when nobody had a harness, TM Herbert bought five wraps worth of 1” tubular off the spool, and used it as a swami for a season of climbing in The Valley and Tuolumne. He was absent mindedly picking at a piece of tape wrapped around it one day whilst sitting at a picnic table in camp when he realized his swami was actually two pieces of webbing held together with masking tape.

That was back when “the leader never falls”.

My friend did something similar at the gym, made it one step closer to a fully rethreaded figure eight than your picture. She took two lead falls onto it and didn't notice until she went to untie. Needless to say I'm better at buddy checking now

I was doubling back my harness when passed the rope.  I tied in correctly, but never finished doubling back the belt on the harness.

A few bolts up, my harness had started to sag around my hips.  Luckily it was an easy warmup, I was able to find a rest a bit higher and get fully harnessed up.  Although the leg loops probably would have caught me, I definitely felt I was soloing until I got the harness fully on.  This was back when harnesses were not pre threaded...

I've heard it claimed that a benefit of the figure 8 follow-through is that in many cases, even if you mess up/don't finish it, it will still hold. Anyone know more details on how true this is? Anecdotally it seems at least somewhat true based on the stories above. My understanding of knot theory isn't good enough for me to evaluate further, though.

Etha Williamswrote:

I've heard it claimed that a benefit of the figure 8 follow-through is that in many cases, even if you mess up/don't finish it, it will still hold. Anyone know more details on how true this is? Anecdotally it seems at least somewhat true based on the stories above. My understanding of knot theory isn't good enough for me to evaluate further, though.

yeah, from the little bit i know when you fall it creates a lot of friction where you first insert the second strand into the knot , in the middle when you cross under, and where you thread the second strand out. the knot cinches down on the second strand of rope when you put pressure on it sorta like a belay device cinching down on the rope thats hooked into the caribiner. only thing is it doesnt release as well, otherwise i wouldnt be sitting on the bottom of my send for 15 min trying to untie myself    

Etha Williamswrote:

I've heard it claimed that a benefit of the figure 8 follow-through is that in many cases, even if you mess up/don't finish it, it will still hold. Anyone know more details on how true this is? Anecdotally it seems at least somewhat true based on the stories above. My understanding of knot theory isn't good enough for me to evaluate further, though.

Prefer the advice to tie well & surely, rather than thinking some chance events of improper tying might work --they might, but ... .

In the OP case, if one tucks that once-tucked tail down through the top U-turn of the 8, left of the main line's tuck, you have what I call a Quick8, which to my limited stress testing, holds.  Make a further tuck of the tail back between the eye legs, and you have a knot that held to rupture in some urethane-coated? Dyneema (to no great strength --38%, IIRC).   The Quick8 might prove to be more easily loosened come time to untie it (and the eye-legs tucking to ensure "and not before!").

*kN*

1 step short of a finished retrace-8 is a "directional 8".

David Mileswrote:

One of my climbing buddies bolted an entire route with a partially tied figure 8 knot...

He has been climbing for over 30 years.... Established at least a hundred routes here in South Africa.

I get the point of the thread safety checks but the picture makes it look like the route was bolted inside a house

As to Lynn Hill’s accident - it’s worth adding that her’s was a solid 80 ft fall off a vertical wall in Buoux. I was in the miniature forest below that broke her fall when Gerhard Horhager told me the story.

Incredible that she survived 

James Mwrote:

 had a strange out of body "I should have died" feeling the rest of the day. 

I have that feeling a little too often.

I've been climbing for over 30 years and I led an 80 foot warm up route and lowered on a knot like that. Only realized when I went to untie. Definitely messed with my head for a while. I take check ins a lot more seriously now. 

I was once setting a fixed line with a figure eight on a bite up for rappel. Only the tail was too long and I threaded my grigri through that instead of the actual fixed line that went to the ground! I went to pull slack and noticed how light it felt. Thankfully I still had my pas on the anchor so I was able to fix my situation.
thanks op for posting! Check your f**king knots!