Climber Charles Barrett Arrested for Yosemite Sexual Assaults

petzl logicwrote:

These names go right to the top of Big Climbing, pretty crazy.

Uh, yeah, crazy. https://tahoequarterly.com/people/haven-for-a-famous-rock-climber. Read down to Seeking New Challenges. 

Andrew Ricewrote:

Yury, since I know you are a sensitive guy. How do you think it feels to the victims of sexual assault or domestic violence when they see people seemingly making excuses for the bad behavior of the accused?

I apologize for not being sensitive enough for your liking.
I never was a fan of limiting discussions of the accidents only to feel good cheer up comments.

Face Palmwrote:

op wanted to inform the community and help victims to feel safe to come forward

CB has a long and frequent history of assaulting women, proof is in this thread

understanding who was involved gives us a picture of who was looking the other way, defending CB, and possibly intimidating witnesses and victims

if someone lives, climbs, and parties with a guy that has this history they are going to know what's going on

what kind of person starts a thread about "appreciating" someone who is well known for committing crimes against women? someone with the nickname RyanD

what kind of person defends the bro culture that enables these crimes?

more information about CB, here's his supertopo post history: http://www.supertopo.com/forumsearch.php?v=0&cur=0&ftr1=a&ftr2=&ftr3=&ftr4=Charlie+B+&scope=all

so many people knew him, yet nobody knew?

yeah right

This is isn't black and white.
I had a friend in our general adventuring friend group that recently got arrested for being a serial rapist.... I knew him as a good family man with kids and a wife. Never put off any signal he was a fucking monster the uncountable time we would hang.
Does it make me sick that he was around me, my partner, my friends, and their partners whom he could have preyed on, absolutely.
Was there signs? Nope.
We were gobsmacked. How could we have missed this we asked each other. Well, some people have 2 sides and depending on your relation you only get the one they decide to give you. Its planned. Its a game for them. A con. A grift.
Likely this "friend" will rot for a LONG LONG LONG time...life sentenced deserved. And I hope they get it.

Greg Davis wrote:

I understand where folks come from, clearly there is some cloak and shadow shit going on. As far as playing Reddit detective and scouring decade old forum posts to try to read between the lines and see who you can blame instead of the perp, well, I think that is the real “face palm.”

lol, climbing guide brushes off rape culture in the climbing community by making fun of my nickname

the feds will go back six years or more when they try this case

but it is wrong to bring up information from that time in this court of public opinion?

CB committed multiple violent crimes in front of multiple witnesses

multiple restraining orders over many years

east side climbing community is small, people knew who he was and what he did

but he was fun and climbed hard, so look the other way

"it's not the community, it was just one guy, a jekyll hyde ..... how could we have known?"

yeah right

M Mwrote:

Close it, enough said.

Just turn off notifications if you are done with this thread. 

Face Palmwrote:

lol, climbing guide brushes off rape culture in the climbing community by making fun of my nickname

the feds will go back six years or more when they try this case

but it is wrong to bring up information from that time in this court of public opinion?

CB committed multiple violent crimes in front of multiple witnesses

multiple restraining orders over many years

east side climbing community is small, people knew who he was and what he did

but he was fun and climbed hard, so look the other way

"it's not the community, it was just one guy, a jekyll hyde ..... how could we have known?"

yeah right

 

Fair enough, my comments weren't helpful to this thread. Take care.

climber patwrote:

Just turn off notifications if you are done with this thread. 

I do enjoy watching the kids fight, I feel as if the whole conversation will get deleted if it keeps going and that would be a darn shame.

Yoda Jedi Knightwrote:

Not to contribute to thread drift (cue sarcastic eye roll)...

How does one separate someone's crimes from their accomplishments? There are plenty of musicians or athletes that have done horrible things. To what degree should their accomplishments be ignored because of it? Does it change if that person is dead? Would you buy Charles's guidebook?

Why do people feel the need to do this? Bill Cosby is a really funny guy, Michael Jackson made great music, Hitler was a talented artist, Charlie was a good climber…and they all did horrible things, so what?

Tradibanwrote:

Why do people feel the need to do this? Bill Cosby is a really funny guy, Michael Jackson made great music, Hitler was a talented artist, Charlie was a good climber…and they all did horrible things, so what?

You'd buy art from Hitler?

If not, then now you know why people do this. 

Tradibanwrote:

Why do people feel the need to do this? Bill Cosby is a really funny guy, Michael Jackson made great music, Hitler was a talented artist, Charlie was a good climber…and they all did horrible things, so what?

Because there’s a moral dilemma, particularly if the person is still alive and out there. Sure, if I hear an MJ song on the radio, I tap my foot like the rest of us. I’m not saying Cosby wasn’t funny or whatever person wasn’t talented. But maybe there’s some sort of moral obligation to stop supporting them if they’re shitty people. I would feel uncomfortable buying CB’s guidebook if it would be supporting him financially in any way. But I’d be interested to hear what you would do and why?

Ricky Harlinewrote:

You'd buy art from Hitler?

If not, then now you know why people do this. 

I would, if it was “good”. Do you surmise that I would have personally enabled the holocaust if I bought Hiter’s art? Would I allow Charlie to rape and pillage if I bought his guidebook?

I've refrained for some time, but seems worth it to state this plainly at this point, mostly for the folks who are sorting through all this for the first time:

You know a rapist personally. It is almost guaranteed. (If you know a rapist personally because you were assaulted or raped, I'm incredibly sorry.) Sexual assault is incredibly common, and is perpetrated dominantly by repeat offenders.

However, these individuals are predatory. They put significant energy and effort into disguising their behaviors and intentions. They are good at gaslighting, darvo, flattery when needed, bro-ing down when effective, intimidation if required, and physical violence if all else fails. Depending on their preferences, skills, and access, they may put significant time and energy into grooming. They put energy and effort into reputation, precisely so that they can be protected by "he's such a good guy" narratives. They use victim blaming to their advantage by socially isolating victims and assuring them no one will believe them if they report (because they typically won't). Law enforcement reception to reports is mixed at the absolute best, and huge numbers of officers are themselves abusers at rates higher than the general populace. It's all pretty fucked up, but here we are.

Some back of the napkin math, Fermi style:
Depending on how its defined and who's doing the research, about 1 in 5 women in the U.S. is a sexual assault survivor and something like 1 in 30 for men, so let's just conservatively say 10% of the population (or 1 in 10; since women are approximately half the population) has been subjected to sexual assault of some kind in their life. If a serial offender rapes 10 people (a reasonable estimate), that should put us in the correct order of magnitude (and will be a conservative estimate). This would mean that about 1% of the population are rapists, or something like 2% of men. This follows (and is a smaller estimate than) the research, which puts the number typically somewhere in the mid to high single digits.

If you believe the Dunabr number, which is a socio anthropological theory stating that you can maintain a max of about 150 stable interpersonal relationships, then you know a rapist personally, maybe a couple. This shit is SO COMMON I cannot stress it enough. Since reporting is so uncommon, information is passed informally via social networks (not necessarily social media, but old school person-to-person in various ways). In my experience men are often not privy to this, but I assure you that the folks with vulnerable identities of all kinds are on alert for this behavior.

*I'm aware my math largely excludes women perpetrators and anyone who identifies as other than woman/man; just trying to make a point about how common this problem truly is. You'd need to have a very unusual (impossible?) social network to not have this problem in it. And since I've added this footnote, transgender individuals experience even higher rates of sexual violence.

Edit: "never get a woman hammered in order to play" is the literal definition of rape. And just to be clear, if someone gets hammered for any reason and is raped, the rape is not their fault; it is the fault of the rapist.

I know some have thought “dumpster fire” but I think exact opposite.  I’ve really appreciated everyone’s contribution here in this thread.  At minimum, has sparked thinking and discussion.  Never a bad thing, either of those two.  

Tradibanwrote:

I would, if it was “good”. Do you surmise that I would have personally enabled the holocaust if I bought Hiter’s art? Would I allow Charlie to rape and pillage if I bought his guidebook?

Idk how money works in or after prison, but contributing to someone’s income might enable them to do terrible things. Right?

Yoda Jedi Knightwrote:

Idk how money works in or after prison, but contributing to someone’s income might enable them to do terrible things. Right?

That is the barbaric social doctrine: destroy those that injure you or yours. There is no redemption, forgiveness or opportunity for healing on either side. I can understand refraining from supporting someone like Cosby or Weinstein. But people already on the bottom rung(s) of the system deserve a chance to earn money for food & shelter. I think you have to leave a path to redemption if society (inclusive of the perpetrator) is to heal and improve going forward. Whether or not that path is taken is outside your control; try to find peace in knowing that you've done your best to pursue legal means of relief & let go of the hatred. fwiw, this is what I learned going through some of these emotions following an assault & permanent disfigurement. 

The vocalist for as I lay dying went to prison for attempting to murder his ex-wife. He made strong efforts to make it clear he knows he majorly fucked up, and uses his platform to actively advocate against those actions.  He currently sells sold out shows for every venue that they play at. So yes, there is definitely room for redemption. Idk Charlie, but it doesn’t sound like he intends to be better, seeing as he has a repeated history of this stuff

​Thanks in shallah and Erik Strand for the thoughtful responses. It’s a complex problem and I definitely have mixed feelings about it. How do you judge if someone is making an effort towards redemption? What about people that haven’t been charged with anything but have a reputation?

Yoda Jedi Knightwrote: Thanks in shallah and Erik Strand for the thoughtful responses. It’s a complex problem and I definitely have mixed feelings about it. How do you judge if someone is making an effort towards redemption? What about people that haven’t been charged with anything but have a reputation?

Just stop judging people and everything will fall into place.

in shallahwrote:

That is the barbaric social doctrine: destroy those that injure you or yours. There is no redemption, forgiveness or opportunity for healing on either side. I can understand refraining from supporting someone like Cosby or Weinstein. But people already on the bottom rung(s) of the system deserve a chance to earn money for food & shelter. I think you have to leave a path to redemption if society (inclusive of the perpetrator) is to heal and improve going forward. Whether or not that path is taken is outside your control; try to find peace in knowing that you've done your best to pursue legal means of relief & let go of the hatred. fwiw, this is what I learned going through some of these emotions following an assault & permanent disfigurement.

The post you are replying to is referring to hitler. Hitler did not deserve compassion, or a second chance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law