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Anchor/Rappel Bolts

Original Post
oskar blues · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2022 · Points: 0

We are looking at bolting a multi pitch climb in the Bitterroots and want some advice on what rappel anchors we should place. We are planning to rappel in and drill dual anchors at approximately every 100+/- feet. Are the FIXE 316 SS 1/2 Double Ring Anchors the best option? I am hoping to place as minimal amount of bolts as I can.  There is a ton of development potential in this area. We rappelled in this past week and see endless possibilities. We will happily put the climb in a PDF and post on MP when it is bolted and cleaned. Thinking the low 5.10 range. At least the last 300ft we climbed. Haven't seen the bottom 300 yet. Before I get slammed, I am only helping with development and not experienced in any of it. Trying to learn and help out. It sure is a ton of fun but somewhat scary!!!

K Go · · Seattle, WA · Joined Oct 2017 · Points: 142

As somebody who has rappelled off many different anchors, the only worse choice than fixe double ring anchors are Metolius rap hangers. Both twist your rope a lot, and the welded on fixe rap rings are hard to replace when worn. The bottom of the hanging hardware should ideally come together at a single point. Chains and a quick link on the hanger are simple to replace, or the vertically stacked orientation with the top bolt connected with chain to a single rap ring on the bottom bolt works great. I don't develop but the anchor hardware in some places in WA is not well thought out and is annoying to use. 

Danny Provo · · SLC/ Montana · Joined Jun 2018 · Points: 0

Are you aware that there is currently a bolting ban in the Bitterroot? Obviously I’m not in favor of the ban, but ignoring it certainly won’t help with negotiations with the forest service.

https://www.accessfund.org/news-and-events/news/bitterroot-national-forest-bans-new-bolts

Ryan K · · Lander, WY · Joined Feb 2015 · Points: 0

Please don’t bolt in an area with an active ban. Maybe read the above link and consider deleting this thread. It really does not reflect well on the user group.


Also, while humility is admirable, if you have to ask what type of anchors to put in… maybe you shouldn’t be putting them in.

Jake Jones · · Richmond, VA · Joined Jun 2021 · Points: 170
oskar blues wrote:

We are looking at bolting a multi pitch 

Are the other(s) more experienced?  If the answer is no, I’d reconsider or talk to some other developers at least before you take steel to stone.

climb in the Bitterroots and want some advice on what rappel anchors we should place. We are planning to rappel in and drill dual anchors at approximately every 100+/- feet.

Distance is arbitrary most of the time.  You’ll want to put anchors where it makes sense.  Stances at ledges or at points that will be conducive for pulling the rope where it’s less likely to get stuck, etc. this becomes more important the more featured the terrain is.  Also, if it’s an area that is going to see a lot of development, someone experienced should know enough to be able to maybe assess whether the individual routes should have anchors that can be used to descend also, or whether there should be points that are convenient to multiple routes that can be used to get down.  It makes a big difference when it comes to the amount of hardware you need and how you establish multiple routes in a single area.

Are the FIXE 316 SS 1/2 Double Ring Anchors the best option? 

Probably not.  Whatever you use- either make it like the above poster suggested, or if you have to put up a typical “American” anchor, make it so both rings can touch- even if it means adding links because it will twist ropes otherwise.

I hope whoever is in this endeavor with you has the answers to the questions you’re asking here, otherwise the venture is ill-advised until you can garner some more knowledge and experience.  Not trying to be a dick.  Be safe and I hope this helps.

Cory N · · Monticello, UT · Joined Sep 2018 · Points: 1,118
Danny Provo wrote:

Are you aware that there is currently a bolting ban in the Bitterroot? Obviously I’m not in favor of the ban, but ignoring it certainly won’t help with negotiations with the forest service.

https://www.accessfund.org/news-and-events/news/bitterroot-national-forest-bans-new-bolts 

It looks like anchors can be authorized if you read the link you posted.

“Fixed anchors are only allowed with prior authorization, but this is a vast improvement from the initial fixed anchor and new route ban.”

oskar blues · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2022 · Points: 0

Thanks to everyone who had actual advice.  I have never bolted but my partner has a lot of experience.  I thought I was clear on that point so I don't understand why all the snarky remarks.  I merely wanted to hear others suggestions on what to use and how others do things so I could be more educated as a helper - everyone has preferences and opinions and I enjoy learning from the experience of others on MP so please keep the contributions regarding what is best coming.  Maybe I should have put this under the Bolting thread, however, I was hoping to get local input as those are the people who will be using the hardware and are most familiar with the rock in the area.  

Also, neither of us were aware of any bolting ban or requirement for getting permission.  How is that information being disseminated to the general public as I have not seen any postings at popular climbing trail heads indicated bolting is not allowed?  

I am guessing in order to get a permit for this we just need to reach out to the local FS office and who to talk to? If anyone has specific information on this that would be helpful.  

Cole Lawrence · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined May 2017 · Points: 16

Grabbing my popcorn. You guys just kill me @oskar blues.

“We had no idea about the 4 year long bolting saga… but we have been around long enough to start exploring new walls, make comments on Kootenai, hoping to get input from locals” give me a break!!!

There are ulterior motives to the anonymous questions posed by Oskar Blues. They have gotten smarter however, by banking some comments to appear legit. Maybe add some pictures, tick some routes, make some more “genuine” comments.

Those who know, know. Those who don't… it’s literally too absurd and strange to explain. 

hill billygoat · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 85

@Burger King I think potentially what Cole was getting at is that Oskar Blues is actually a local who is definitely “in the know” about Bitterroot issues but is intentionally trying to stir the pot. For what reason I do not know…

oskar blues · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2022 · Points: 0

Cole Lawrence I didn’t ask the question for you to bash me dude.  Your suggestion that those who know, know, those who don’t . . . seems to say that if a person doesn’t know how to bolt they shouldn’t be inquiring because they are unteachable.  It looks like you have experience bolting in the area from what I see on your profile.  Why would you not want to direct me in the right direction so I can learn best practices instead of doing it wrong the first time and also educating others who are reading this thread? Isn’t that what these forums are supposed to be for?  If you want to just bash on people, go find a forum post where this is already happening and join in - there are plenty.

Burger King as I said before I am a helper not an experienced route developer, not even an experienced climber.  Fortunately met some really nice people who were willing to include me in their adventures.  We are all young and enthusiastic and have much to learn.  I was brought up to ask when uncertain.

Danny Provo’s post prompted me to do a little digging and I do see that bolting has been banned since 2020 awaiting a climbing management plan.  I did not know about it until now.  Why would the Forest Service not post this at trailheads so there is no misunderstanding or confusion - they do this for atv’s, shooting and camping all the time?  That being said, we will not be bolting anything until the ban is over unless we get a permit.  

I would still like to hear everyone’s opinion about best hardware to use in the spirit of learning.  Or maybe I will just start a new thread under bolting not tied to a subject that is clearly a point of contention and stirs emotions.

Dave Olsen · · Channeled Scablands · Joined Dec 2019 · Points: 10

"drill dual anchors at approximately every 100+/- feet"

60 meters = 196 ft

Just sayin.

---

Also great thread on anchors.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/116116739/photos-of-beautiful-hardware

Nate Barton · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2020 · Points: 125

Wait, there is climbing in the bitterroot? The Missoula climbing coalition has been so secretive, I didn’t even know there was a bitterroot national forest, let alone a bolting ban. This is all news to me. Thank you for sharing 

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Wyoming, Montana, Dakotas
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