Escape a belay?

How many people have actually ever used their escape a belay technique  they learned in self rescue? I’d love to hear who hasn’t and some stories where people have.

Thankfully I have never had to but I also probably couldn’t do it right now if I needed to. Time to go brush up in the garage.

Yes.

a) belay from above; rope stuck out of sight; no comms - noisy interstate highway nearby.

b) partner broke wrist in lead fall on P2; more than half rope out.

Neither of the above required all the techniques one might need in a worst case scenario. Practicing worst case scenario simply keeps fresh a good set of techniques … or at least clarifies one’s own limitations .

Bill Lawrywrote:a) belay from above; rope stuck out of sight; no comms - noisy interstate highway nearby.

How did this this play out? Did the rope get pinched in a constriction? Free the rope and ascend back up to finish out the route or just rap back down?

In 50 years of climbing, never; nor have any of my long term partners. That works out to around 250-300 climber years.

Only once at Lovers Leap . My partner & I split up to lead couple up same route. On second pitch my partner fall several pieces above belay & injured his back. I was close enough to leave my belayer tied off at anchor and to ascend to belayer above me & lower injured leader .

Traversing pitch, multi pitch trad, my second fell off into overhanging terrain and got tired trying to regain the route. Rather than try and yell down rope climbing instructions, it was easier to escape, rap/traverse back down/across the route, build a temporary anchor, transfer their weight and give them a gentle swing into easier terrain. After I cleaned the traverse gear and TR soloed back to the original anchor, I belayed them up. This was not an urgent or emergency situation, more about keeping things fun for my second and getting to the summit. 

Caveman Ywrote:

Traversing pitch, multi pitch trad, my second fell off into overhanging terrain and got tired trying to regain the route. Rather than try and yell down rope climbing instructions, it was easier to escape, rap/traverse back down/across the route, build a temporary anchor, transfer their weight and give them a gentle swing into easier terrain. After I cleaned the traverse gear and TR soloed back to the original anchor, I belayed them up. This was not an urgent or emergency situation, more about keeping things fun for my second and getting to the summit. 

Wouldnt hauling them back onto the route w/ 3:1 have been easier?

abe rwrote:

Wouldnt hauling them back onto the route w/ 3:1 have been easier?

I had the same initial thought. Tried it, couldn’t get them back to the previous piece due to all the drag of the traverse. The pitch made kind of a L shape, with a lower vertical leg they had already climbed. 

Escaping the belay is not always "getting to baseline."

Many times I and friends have had to do belay takeovers and belay/lower knot passes... Which kinda, technically, involve escaping the belay, or transferring the belay, just not the way you tend to think about it during self-rescue clinics where you are usually practicing something like ATC-MO to PMMO to MMO (baseline).

Connor Varneywrote:

How did this this play out? Did the rope get pinched in a constriction? Free the rope and ascend back up to finish out the route or just rap back down?

Yes, rope was stuck in a crack. My bad.

This ended a little oddly. I made a low-angle rap to release the rope at a lip at about the same time my partner had free solo’d up to that point. I think we both then concurrently made our way back up to the anchor. The climbing was pretty easy for us.

Marc801 Cwrote:

In 50 years of climbing, never; nor have any of my long term partners. That works out to around 250-300 climber years.

45 years climbing and I never had to and I don't know anyone who has. 

Bill Lawrywrote:

Yes.

a) belay from above; rope stuck out of sight; no comms - noisy interstate highway nearby.

b) partner broke wrist in lead fall on P2; more than half rope out.

Neither of the above required all the techniques one might need in a worst case scenario. Practicing worst case scenario simply keeps fresh a good set of techniques … or at least clarifies one’s own limitations .

please share what u did in each case

abe rwrote:

Wouldnt hauling them back onto the route w/ 3:1 have been easier?

A 3:1 gives a good assist to someone climbing, but it would be nigh impossible to haul the full weight of a stationary person, hanging on an overhanging route, i.e., in mid-air.

A 9:1 would be better, if there were no alternative to hauling. That would be a real PITA, though.

FrankPSwrote:

A 3:1 gives a good assist to someone climbing, but it would be nigh impossible to haul the full weight of a stationary person, hanging on an overhanging route, i.e., in mid-air.

A 9:1 would be better, if there were no alternative to hauling. That would be a real PITA, though.

I think this depends strongly on the tools used. With a plaquette as the progress capture, a 3:1 is close to useless. But someone free hanging in mid-air would typically be easier to haul than the configurations that include friction on the rock and/or protection. (This assumes that the stranded climber is equally unable to assist in both cases.)

I'd posit the 9:1 will almost never be a practical solution for climber self-rescue in steep 5th class. The limited total throw in the system afforded by a small stance will demand a reset of the rope grabs quite often, and the inches lost to the creep and stretch in the progress capture will quickly negate the few inches gained in raising given the 9x difference in input hauling length vs output of the haul.

The 3:1 is a decent option for a lone, fit climber depending on the tools, or a 4:1 or 5:1 if 3:1 isn't working. Knowing how to rig for both upward or downward pull without a redirect point is also quite helpful (ex. Spanish Burton for the 3:1) depending on the stance.

Alec Baker wrote:

I've wondered if a 2:1 with a cordelette or sling for a zed cord might be better than a 3:1 with a plate. Have you ever improvised a 2:1 without pulleys?

Yes. It goes, but I think it's somewhat of a wash between those two options. If you've got a long cord or sling available then you have a reasonable chance of capturing a good chunk of progress tending the plaquette one handed. However, if the sling is short, it's less great. The sling/cord can also be harder to grip than the rope. It likely depends enough on the specifics (not the least of which are your body size and particular strengths) that you'd probably be well served to just try both and see what you prefer.

I'm personally inclined to do a 4:1 (compound 2:1 pig rig style) with the rope if the stance allows a decent throw and good use of the legs. Clove hitch the brake strand behind the plaquette for the initial 2:1, then use the backside of your clove hitch for the compound 2:1. I find it helpful to do a short pull and just lower the load back down on the first haul to get the clove hitches snug, then start hauling for real.

To the bigger point I think the OP is trying to get at, I think escaping the belay as a standalone skill is rarely beneficial. Most of the time it's a more efficient transition to just go straight from the system you're on to the one you want. The underlying principle of doing a load transfer is still a valuable thing to understand, though. When I teach self rescue, we typically cover 3 skills: munter-mules (for the aforementioned load transfers), counter-balance systems (from above and below), and tandem rappelling. Those cover most of the things you're likely to need or you can't resolve one way or another by just lowering someone. Hauling only makes it on the list if everything has gone swimmingly, we are talking specifically about crevasses, the student(s) have a compelling use case, etc.

climber patwrote:

45 years climbing and I never had to and I don't know anyone who has. 

Same.   I think anyone who has been climbing long enough can figure it out but it just doesn’t happen that often and like you have never met anyone who has had to do it.  

Maybe Considerwrote:

please share what u did in each case

Go up two posts from yours to see response for ‘a’.

For injured leader on P2, I lowered partner to an intermediate ledge between us, tied off belay, believed the three pieces above him were good, top-rope solo’d to him w/ short-catch prusic and periodic catastrophe knots, built intermediate gear anchor for him, cleaned a piece or two above him (probably should have left those), pulled rope, lowered him to next anchor (his preference), rapped to him, lowered him once more, etc..

But the steps aren’t really helpful to anyone here, nor assessing / caring for him once I got up to him, nor the options we discussed before we chose one. Not many experience these things as we see from other posts, and those that do are likely to have different circumstances needing different steps or allowing some other good-enough series of steps.

And yet, these experiences reinforced to me the helpfulness of periodic and varied self-rescue training and wilderness first aide training. I say that because all of the assessments and decisions in these cases were like putting on an old familiar, comfortable shirt which does not come from memorizing some steps for a certain set of circumstances … not that anyone suggested this.

Derek DeBruinwrote:

Yes. It goes, but I think it's somewhat of a wash between those two options. If you've got a long cord or sling available then you have a reasonable chance of capturing a good chunk of progress tending the plaquette one handed. However, if the sling is short, it's less great. The sling/cord can also be harder to grip than the rope. It likely depends enough on the specifics (not the least of which are your body size and particular strengths) that you'd probably be well served to just try both and see what you prefer.

I'm personally inclined to do a 4:1 (compound 2:1 pig rig style) with the rope if the stance allows a decent throw and good use of the legs. Clove hitch the brake strand behind the plaquette for the initial 2:1, then use the backside of your clove hitch for the compound 2:1. I find it helpful to do a short pull and just lower the load back down on the first haul to get the clove hitches snug, then start hauling for real.

To the bigger point I think the OP is trying to get at, I think escaping the belay as a standalone skill is rarely beneficial. Most of the time it's a more efficient transition to just go straight from the system you're on to the one you want. The underlying principle of doing a load transfer is still a valuable thing to understand, though. When I teach self rescue, we typically cover 3 skills: munter-mules (for the aforementioned load transfers), counter-balance systems (from above and below), and tandem rappelling. Those cover most of the things you're likely to need or you can't resolve one way or another by just lowering someone. Hauling only makes it on the list if everything has gone swimmingly, we are talking specifically about crevasses, the student(s) have a compelling use case, etc.

I sent you a message 

Bill Lawrywrote:

Go up two posts from yours to see response for ‘a’.

For injured leader on P2, I lowered partner to an intermediate ledge between us, tied off belay, believed the three pieces above him were good, top-rope solo’d to him w/ short-catch prusic and periodic catastrophe knots, built intermediate gear anchor for him, cleaned a piece or two above him (probably should have left those), pulled rope, lowered him to next anchor (his preference), rapped to him, lowered him once more, etc..

But the steps aren’t really helpful to anyone here, nor assessing / caring for him once I got up to him, nor the options we discussed before we chose one. Not many experience these things as we see from other posts, and those that do are likely to have different circumstances needing different steps or allowing some other good-enough series of steps.

And yet, these experiences reinforced to me the helpfulness of periodic and varied self-rescue training and wilderness first aide training. I say that because all of the assessments and decisions in these cases were like putting on an old familiar, comfortable shirt which does not come from memorizing some steps for a certain set of circumstances … not that anyone suggested this.

This is an excellent example, thanks for sharing this Bill!

Another interesting survey question might be:

For those who never participated in self-rescue practice (not just escape the belay) and found themselves in circumstances needing rescue (self rescue or otherwise), how did it go?  And could learning and practicing beforehand have made a positive difference?