New and Experienced climbers over 50 #21

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

Supposedly there are Timber rattlers in VT and NH but you have to be a real expert to find one.  60 years of playing outside I have never seen one.  I suppose with global warming that is bound to change.  I know we never had ticks here until the mid 2000s and now we are infested... 

Look at all the “Rattlesnake Mountains” in New England.  Both Rumney and Farley are so named.   The rattlesnakes would go into communal dens below the frost line in the talus slopes in winter.  They were easily killed by farmers, who would dump kerosine in and burn them out.  Now they are protected, but are slow to expand their populations, global warming or not.  I saw one once when I was a kid, but it was probably the last rattlesnake in Rhode Island.

Ward, A copperhead encounter has been reported at Farley last month by reliable sources, so they are still around the area, and not far from the VT border. And there are definitely populations of copperheads and rattlers in the Holyoke Range and Mt. Tom about 20 miles south.

Nick, 25 or so years ago when our daughter was young, we had no problem with her playing in our ( rough) yard and woods—don’t recall ever finding a tick on her. Now it is not unusual for us to find ticks on us after just walking to the car.

You can begin climbing at age 40 and still become a very good climber. You shouldn't worry at all about starting too late.

paan jiwrote:

You can begin climbing at age 40 and still become a very good climber. You shouldn't worry at all about starting too late.

Are you a bot? What are your pronouns? "It" and "its"?

Farmers are really good at killing anything that bothers them except for ticks. those things are hard if not impossible to get rid of...  It surprises me none at all that the rattlers were wiped out by farmers. I grew up on a farm and learned the drill.  anything that messes with crops or livestock got eliminated.  that being said i have heard that the rattlers still exist and can be found by experts. Thankfully I am not an expert.

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

Farmers are really good at killing anything that bothers them except for ticks. those things are hard if not impossible to get rid of...  It surprises me none at all that the rattlers were wiped out by farmers. I grew up on a farm and learned the drill.  anything that messes with crops or livestock got eliminated.  that being said i have heard that the rattlers still exist and can be found by experts. Thankfully I am not an expert.

I gotta say this tick thing bothers me more than rattlesnakes. A little over 10 years ago when I was living in the Sacramento area I got pretty sick and it went on for at least a year.  My doctor did some extensive testing and announced to me that I had Lyme disease in the chronic stage. I could not recall having ever been bitten by a tick but he said they’re tiny I might not have known it. But something didn’t smell right to me. I didn’t realize I was about to jump into one of the biggest controversies ever in the medical world.  I was positive by the Western blot and I was later positive by PCR and the Health Department was calling me asking what I was going to do about my Lyme Disease… However the lab that tested me only did Lyme testing and as far as I could tell they were invested in finding positive results in everyone. I talked  to my primary physician who was a  straight arrow conventional doctor and she said “Lori, you will never know whether or not you actually have Lyme disease. It will be an article of faith one way or the other.“ So I refused the IV antibiotics and the exhaustive treatments being presented and I slid through  whatever it was until I slowly recovered. Interestingly, as I have had more recent appointments with my Kaiser doctors we are right back on that same subject.  

So I might worry a little if I were living in a place that actually had ticks that actually could cause Lyme disease.  I’ll take the rattlesnakes! At least it’s one and done.

Lyme sucks, Ticks suck. the long term antibiotic treatment is almost as bad as the disease.  A short run of antibiotics does the trick if you catch it in the first week. after that it gets gnarly. Isa wrote a book about Lyme.  www.thriftbooks.com/w/healing-lyme-beyond-antibiotics-a-personal-account-of-winning-the-battle-against-lyme-disease/25512145/item/35817050/?mkwid=%7cdc&pcrid=76897258815619&pkw=&pmt=be&slid=&product=35817050&plc=&pgrid=1230353765528421&ptaid=pla-4580496734886475&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping+%7c+NEW+condition+books&utm_term=&utm_content=%7cdc%7cpcrid%7c76897258815619%7cpkw%7c%7cpmt%7cbe%7cproduct%7c35817050%7cslid%7c%7cpgrid%7c1230353765528421%7cptaid%7cpla-4580496734886475%7c&msclkid=ae56de8f9488113812e8bc66ac6d8e6f#idiq=35817050&edition=27242404

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

Lyme sucks, Ticks suck. the long term antibiotic treatment is almost as bad as the disease.  A short run of antibiotics does the trick if you catch it in the first week. after that it gets gnarly. Isa wrote a book about Lyme.  www.thriftbooks.com/w/healing-lyme-beyond-antibiotics-a-personal-account-of-winning-the-battle-against-lyme-disease/25512145/item/35817050/?mkwid=%7cdc&pcrid=76897258815619&pkw=&pmt=be&slid=&product=35817050&plc=&pgrid=1230353765528421&ptaid=pla-4580496734886475&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping+%7c+NEW+condition+books&utm_term=&utm_content=%7cdc%7cpcrid%7c76897258815619%7cpkw%7c%7cpmt%7cbe%7cproduct%7c35817050%7cslid%7c%7cpgrid%7c1230353765528421%7cptaid%7cpla-4580496734886475%7c&msclkid=ae56de8f9488113812e8bc66ac6d8e6f#idiq=35817050&edition=27242404

Nick, thanks for the book selection and I will get Isa’s book. I  wonder if Isa would be willing to exchange some texts or emails with me.  I’ve vowed to walk away from this Lyme issue because I only saw people getting desperately worse, especially with long-term antibiotics. But here we are a decade later and my Kaiser docs just tested me again to try to get to the bottom of so much fatigue. I’d rather do almost anything else. On the other hand… solid information can’t be bad.  

I would assume that isa's contact info is in the book. She is liveing in her tiny house right now with limited internet ( go to the library ) as she rented out the big house for the month of august

Todd Berlier wrote:

My Lyme story:

Starting with the irony: I was taking my daughters camping while my wife did some CEs to Salt Point about 5 years ago. On the drive we were listening to NPR (have to breed democrats dontcha know) and they had a segment on Lyme disease and I was wondering why there aren't monthly preventatives like I prescribe for dogs all the time. At least for kids where the disease is prevelant--so I called NPR and got put on hold. My kids thought is was awesome that I was going to be on the radio, but that was the closest I got. That afternoon we took a walk down to Gerstle Cove and played around for a few hours. My youngest got really tired on the walk back and so I gave her a ride on my shoulders. Later that evening my right shoulder was really sore--I assumed it was from giving the ride to my daughter. We were camping and not showering, but the entire time of 4 days my shoulder stayed sore. When we got back I went to get into the shower and looked in the mirror to see am engorged tan bodied and black headed tick: Ixodes pacificus. CDC search shoed that 3-5% of that type of tick in Sonoma County are carriers. Pulled the tick out and saw the "target lesion." Went to the doctor the next day and told him the story and he prescribed doxcycline and told me to come back to be tested as it was an antibody test and not likely to be positive at this point. Asked him if I refused the test if we would still give me the antibiotic. He said yes, but why. I told him I didn't want any pre-existing conditions in my medical record if I could help it. He shrugged and said ok. 

Lori--I quick search on the sensitivity and specificity for the western blot and PCR tests show that you had/have lyme disease not 100% but close enough. A straight talk with your doctor on the benefits versus the risks of taking the antibiotic seems prudent--I didn't bat an eye, but I was also in the acute phase--a no brainer IMO. I was photosensitive while on it and got the worst sunburn on my hands while skiing I have ever had--just after taking my gloves off to eat lunch--had sunscreen everywhere else. Good luck!

Just about the time I think we have discussed everything possible, another topic comes up.  I appreciate your post on this, Todd  You always come through!  Obviously, I've been posting about this all summer... myriad strategies for feeling healthy.  It's always hard to know exactly what causes what... Tony and all the stress from that have to be factored.  

I've never had such a devastating long illness where I just had to make the decision to NOT have Lyme.  My best friend at the time had this practical way about her... "Lori, we are not going to have Lyme Disease.  Have something else."  I remember arguing with her, trying to show her all these tests, books, explaining how serious this was.  She held firm.  "You don't have Lyme. Find another illness"     Given the options for treatment, which were basically a year of IV antibiotics and then more, I think she helped me dodge a bullet.  Now, 10-14 years later (I would have to look back and see), it would be nice to know if that is a factor in my current fatigue, but I don't think there's much I could do about it.  I have been focused on 'strengthening the host'... me.  And just trusting that in time this will work itself out.  

In the past few years, I've removed about 6 or 7 ticks and sent them off for testing.  Clearly, I need to do a better job at avoiding them.  Has anyone tried the permethrin-treated pants from LL Bean (or elsewhere)?  Any idea how well they would work for chiggers?

I work in the woods, so ticks are a matter of course.  When I get home, I put all my clothes in the dryer and take a soapy shower.  Still, I find an embedded deer tick in me once or twice a year.  If I do, I take two doses of doxycycline six hours apart. I tolerate it well and there are studies showing it is 95% effective. My mother, brother, and two sisters have all had Lyme, yet I haven’t (yet!).

Al, my previous business partner is also a reliable source, and saw a copperhead in Heath (on the Vermont border) ten years ago.  There are tons of them in the Holyoke range so it’s not hard to imagine them being here as it’s only a half hour drive. 

Don't forget the Black Death!!   

Please note the Boise airport terminal is included, as is my bouldering area south of here. Northern edge of this map is only a mile or two from my house. This map was released a few years back....right after I had just participated in a mock disaster drill at the airport. Laying in the grass for hours. Oops.

As for rattlers at climbing areas? They are pretty much gone at my local cliffs. Some of the locals, very early on, dynamited the den(s). At least 50 years ago, so in a truly different time with different ethics. They still haven't made it back. But, to make up for that? A black bear was there once when my climbing friend went out. His dog (my friend's dog, not the bear's) was going nuts, so they looked hard and spotted the youngish bear. Bouldering at the base of our most popular routes. He got a very nice picture by holding his phone up to the binoculars.

Another time, my partner and I came across wolf scat, again, right at the crag. Winter, probably a male traveling through.

I've only had 2 ticks on me, ever. One was during a camping trip up in the mountains. That one I saw while it was moving on me, and it got demolished rather quickly and thoroughly. The other, I found embedded on my side, at my waist, after a trip to City. I think it hitchhiked on my clothes, and was wrapped up in some pants I had on briefly when I was there (nice pants hurriedly thrown on to go meet some people [the Urioste's at RKM's!!!], then taken right back off once back at camp) and then pulled put and put back on when I was home. My climbing partner was at my house at the moment, and got it yanked out for me, lol!

In other news, I am just returned from signing up with a personal trainer at my local YMCA. We'll see how this newest iteration of attempting to get fit goes.....

Best, Helen

PTRwrote:

In the past few years, I've removed about 6 or 7 ticks and sent them off for testing.  Clearly, I need to do a better job at avoiding them.  Has anyone tried the permethrin-treated pants from LL Bean (or elsewhere)?  Any idea how well they would work for chiggers?

https://www.consumerreports.org/insect-repellent/is-permethrin-treated-clothing-safe-and-effective-a7181708753/

I've been treating my backpacking clothes with permithrin for a couple years now.  It is only good for about 6 wash cycles so it is best to learn to do it yourself.  The one caveat is that you have to be extremely careful with the liquid product around cats.  Even the smallest amount will kill them.  Once dry it isn't a threat at all.  I treat my clothes by dipping them in liquid then hang them up to dry.  Once dry I wash them before wearing them so that reduces my uses to 5 more washes.  This works really well for mosquitos but I don't usually backpack where ticks are so I have no idea how it works for them.  I do know that most people who regularly backpack in the east and have to deal with lots of ticks use permithrin a lot, some even spraying down their tents.

Permethrin was the only effective deterrent to ticks and chiggers when I lived and worked in southern Kentucky (it did not work for the rattlesnakes   ).  Tucking pants into socks helped.  Permethrin is NOT a repellent, it is an insecticide.  Kills soon after contact.

I once forgot to spray before heading out for work.  Halfway through the day I noticed a couple small ticks.  When I rolled up my pants, I saw my legs were covered with hundred of them.  Had to strip naked, stand under a waterfall, and wash and scrape them off with my knife.  Same with the clothes.   Managed to escape unscathed.  

well well. Looks like Tony rose from the dead and made us an Italian frittata.    

PTRwrote:

Has anyone tried the permethrin-treated pants from LL Bean (or elsewhere)?  Any idea how well they would work for chiggers?

I'd love to know this as well, as I was thinking of trying the permethrin stuff you can buy and apply to your clothing?

Essential kit in tick territory: One pair of precision tweezers and one of those tick removal widgets. One small light mirror.

Why the mirror, you might ask. Well, if you're alone and realize that you have one of the little bastards in your nether regions, you can get it. Even worse yet, if you don't have that mirror, is that you are with a partner, to whom you will have to task with the removal.

As one who has endured that humiliation...   .

Kristian Solemwrote:

As one who has endured that humiliation...   .

Trust me, the humiliation is all on the other side.  Having done that twice for two different people I can honestly attest to this fact!