No, I decided it was more important to immediately lower off and tell the world that I am a developer. I even got a vanity plate for my Prius that says "1STASSENT" to commemorate the fact that I'm a first ascentionist who develops new routes by putting up FA's (which stands for first ascents, in case you didn't know).
Shouldn't that be "1STASCENT"? But this really explains the tag on the Prius I saw the other day. I was guessing First Ass Entertainment? First Ass Enterprise? First Ass Entrance? Looks like I was way off...
I’m flattered by your proposal but I am already married.
Seriously though, at least share the name of the MP partner so that we can get the other side of the story and balance out this character assassination.
It seems that you are bent on highjacking this thread which I understand is your MO. But your sympathy for and the defense of "goat fuckers" is interesting. Is there anything about your past that you would like to, or should share with the community?
I tend to avoid people who blame their partners 100% for past problems - chances are high there’s going to be another one and it will be my fault.
I also sometimes wonder if certain people were unconsciously dropped by otherwise perfectly good belayers - because they’re assholes. I personally can’t always think straight or do things right while cringing and looking for a way to get away from someone aggressive.
Just curious how many other climbers have been dropped on lead by supposed experienced partners they randomly hooked with on MP. The persons explanation was ludicrous. Dropped 15 feet onto the deck below, fractured talus.
I'm really sorry to hear about your experience. How long will you be laid up for? It sounds like the belayer wanted to give you a good belay but there was some communication issues. Maybe you both left too much unsaid.
I've had really excellent luck with internet partners but I tend to have a dialogue with them before I let them belay me. If at all possible I meet them at a local gym before we head outside. The dialogue always starts with me talking, describing my climbing background and belaying strategy. I always stress that safety is the most important aspect for me with a partner and stress how attentive I am going to be. I talk about standing close to the wall and to the side of their fall line and being prepared to keep them from a ground fall if that's in my domain (depends on their gear obviously). I describe how I'll only move away from the wall once they are out of ground fall zone. Etc. If I can't tell, I ask people how much they weigh so I can see how that factors in. By describing all of this, I am essentially telling them how I want to be belayed. And then when I go up on lead I tell them how I will communicate with them and reiterate what I want with them.
And then even after all this, the first time with a new person, I tend to only lead stuff where I'm 99% sure I'm not going to take a lead fall.
No, I decided it was more important to immediately lower off and tell the world that I am a developer. I even got a vanity plate for my Prius that says "1STASSENT" to commemorate the fact that I'm a first ascentionist who develops new routes by putting up FA's (which stands for first ascents, in case you didn't know).
According to the DSM-V, this renders me a Morally Superior Person and obligates everyone to listen to my spray about developing first ascents as a developer who establishes new routes out of the goodness of my heart.
I even started a Youtube channel called "As a Developer" in which I generously bestow my fair and unbiased opinion on a great number of sociopolitical dilemmas that are of extreme relevance. Being a developer really allows me to look at hot-button issues from a fresh perspective in ways that normal (non-route-establishing) climbers just don't bring to the table.
But on a deeper level, it's important to note that not everyone who "puts up new routes" can truly be considered a First Ascentionist. It requires a metaphysical alignment of your soul into a place of tolerance and nonjudgment where you can really speak your truth and live your best life #asadeveloper.
To that end, I created a premium members-only masterclass called "The Art of First Ascending." If you like and subscribe to my channel, you can purchase this amazing life-changing resource for 5% off! Leave the normies behind and embrace your potential as a Route Developer.
Stealing the name "Metaphysical Alignment" for a new first ascent I'm working on FAing at a crag I've been developing
I tend to avoid people who blame their partners 100% for past problems - chances are high there’s going to be another one and it will be my fault.
I also sometimes wonder if certain people were unconsciously dropped by otherwise perfectly good belayers - because they’re assholes. I personally can’t always think straight or do things right while cringing and looking for a way to get away from someone aggressive.
When the cringe gets too high just go boulder, tell them your vertigo is acting up. It works.
I tend to avoid people who blame their partners 100% for past problems - chances are high there’s going to be another one and it will be my fault.
I also sometimes wonder if certain people were unconsciously dropped by otherwise perfectly good belayers - because they’re assholes. I personally can’t always think straight or do things right while cringing and looking for a way to get away from someone aggressive.
Right on, that's why I think it's important to hear the other side of the story.
I have met many partners on mountain project and never been dropped, even by goats!
Patrik
·
Jul 20, 2022
·
Third rock from Sun
· Joined Jun 2010
· Points: 30
... there was some communication issues. Maybe you both left too much unsaid.
Could you elaborate? I just can't see any need for communication when the leader is 15 ft off the ground. The belayer should see exactly what's going on and what's needed in the belay department. I would think the belayer is actually in a better position than the climber to see any ground fall potential and take appropriate action.
As for the "statistics" of MP hookups that the OP was looking for, here's my experience: One in four are actually fully functional, responsible adults. About 5% are walking death traps. Half of all have some serious trouble staying away from placing gear near loose/questionable rock and/or cannot see when an anchor is not redundant. One third has memorized all the "rules" and "procedures" of how to climb safely even though they don't understand why they exist (scares the hell out of me). The remaining fifth have had some personality issues.
I've probably had ~75 random partners outside. Literally none have been unsafe. Maybe 5-10% of the time their personality or climbing preferences meant that I wouldn't want to climb with them again, but it was still a fun day/weekend.
But I'll only go climbing with random people who climb reasonably hard (mid 5.10?) and actually fall regularly (or at least used to before they got old). This filter seems to be easy to apply, and effective enough at finding people who are safe enough to climb with for a day. There might be long-tail safety things that haven't bitten them yet (e.g. holding the GriGri wide open), but this is way better than them having no idea that you'll deck with the amount of slack they have out.
Could you elaborate? I just can't see any need for communication when the leader is 15 ft off the ground. The belayer should see exactly what's going on and what's needed in the belay department. I would think the belayer is actually in a better position than the climber to see any ground fall potential and take appropriate action.
As for the "statistics" of MP hookups that the OP was looking for, here's my experience: One in four are actually fully functional, responsible adults. About 5% are walking death traps. Half of all have some serious trouble staying away from placing gear near loose/questionable rock and/or cannot see when an anchor is not redundant. One third has memorized all the "rules" and "procedures" of how to climb safely even though they don't understand why they exist (scares the hell out of me). The remaining fifth have had some personality issues.
Interesting perspective and really elaborates on the spectrum skill levels or lack thereof. Thank you. I believe I have had better experience with the skill level of random belayers although my exposure is less than yours. I believe my recent experience is the first with the death trap variety.
I'm really sorry to hear about your experience. How long will you be laid up for? It sounds like the belayer wanted to give you a good belay but there was some communication issues. Maybe you both left too much unsaid.
I've had really excellent luck with internet partners but I tend to have a dialogue with them before I let them belay me. If at all possible I meet them at a local gym before we head outside. The dialogue always starts with me talking, describing my climbing background and belaying strategy. I always stress that safety is the most important aspect for me with a partner and stress how attentive I am going to be. I talk about standing close to the wall and to the side of their fall line and being prepared to keep them from a ground fall if that's in my domain (depends on their gear obviously). I describe how I'll only move away from the wall once they are out of ground fall zone. Etc. If I can't tell, I ask people how much they weigh so I can see how that factors in. By describing all of this, I am essentially telling them how I want to be belayed. And then when I go up on lead I tell them how I will communicate with them and reiterate what I want with them.
And then even after all this, the first time with a new person, I tend to only lead stuff where I'm 99% sure I'm not going to take a lead fall.
I hope you recover quickly.
Looks like 6 weeks for the initial heal and then 6 weeks of progressive rehab although I will probably accelerate that. I was fortunate that the fracture was non-surgical. I am impressed with the diligence with which you approach new partners. Admittedly pre-climb communication it is a practice that I have been lax on and one that I have not experienced from other climbers in the field either. My experience has been there is very little focus on this in the community that I been exposed to. Thank you for your perspective.
I've probably had ~75 random partners outside. Literally none have been unsafe. Maybe 5-10% of the time their personality or climbing preferences meant that I wouldn't want to climb with them again, but it was still a fun day/weekend.
But I'll only go climbing with random people who climb reasonably hard (mid 5.10?) and actually fall regularly (or at least used to before they got old). This filter seems to be easy to apply, and effective enough at finding people who are safe enough to climb with for a day. There might be long-tail safety things that haven't bitten them yet (e.g. holding the GriGri wide open), but this is way better than them having no idea that you'll deck with the amount of slack they have out.
I've had pretty similar experiences. The falling regularly thing is key. There are a lot of people who have been climbing regularly for decades who never fall, climb mostly with partners who never fall, and have absolutely terrifying belay practices. They might be a great partner for easy alpine climbing, but I would never go sport climbing with them. (Or hard trad climbing, but the majority of my trad climbing is cruising moderates.)
In practice, what this means is that if I'm considering going sport climbing with a MP rando and they have a public tick list, what I'm hoping to see is that they've spent some time projecting (on lead) climbs that are hard for them. If someone has an extensive tick list which mainly consists of say, 5.10 onsights and 5.11 TRing, that's a red flag. (The specific grades aren't important, but this does seem like the most common grade range for this kind of climber.) I might still climb with them but I'm going to plan on not falling until I know them better.
I don't think the grade that they climb matters too much, except that generally climbers who fall regularly are climbing at least in the mid 5.10 grade you mention, and often significantly harder.
It seems that you are bent on highjacking this thread which I understand is your MO. But your sympathy for and the defense of "goat fuckers" is interesting. Is there anything about your past that you would like to, or should share with the community?
The joke is about making one mistake and forever being known for it, ala your bad belay partner.
My point is that leading is like motorcycle riding, you're the vulnerable party and you need to be on the defensive. In your case I'm surprised you didn't notice the slack that came before your fall.
If I had to assign blame, such as in a court case, it would lie equally with a climber and belayer, both parties were not paying adequate attention to the safety system.
Looks like 6 weeks for the initial heal and then 6 weeks of progressive rehab although I will probably accelerate that. I was fortunate that the fracture was non-surgical.
That's not too bad. I've had one of those myself. I've had a couple of fractures over the years. My secret weapon for fast healing is to get on some aerobics machines in the gym and get my heart rate up for at least an hour a day to improve the circulation to the injured area.
I am impressed with the diligence with which you approach new partners.
Years ago I used to take it for granted that every climber knew how to belay, but having read so many accident reports over the years, I've gotten more suspicious and cautious. Even if I know from someone's background that they are very experienced, I just say it all the first time out.
Admittedly pre-climb communication it is a practice that I have been lax on and one that I have not experienced from other climbers in the field either. My experience has been there is very little focus on this in the community that I been exposed to.
It probably is less typical. There may be some gender differences? I'm a woman and my women partners seem to be far more verbal about safety concerns and belay styles than my male partners. Do men think their expertise is being questioned and become offended if a new partner wants to talk about this stuff? Are they more indulgent if the person speaking to them is a woman? In any case, now that you've had this injury, you have the perfect intro to why you want to review certain things out loud on a "first date".
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