Finding the Best Alternative to the Original Attache: A Review of Rope Bearing Carabiners

steve barrattwrote:

Just to chime in: I think this new Grivel carabiner which was released lately is exceptionally good for this use, and way lighter than everything else comparable as far as I can tell. 

I did a quick test at home and the pull resistance was very very good with an ATC-guide. I did a quick comparison with a metolius element and sm'd. 

It is auto locking and with a completely round bar where it counts. Its a bit more fiddly at first to use the twin gate but you get used to it quickly, so I think it's a good compromise for the weight. The weight listed (44g) is accurate on my balance.

I've not used it in anger yet as it just arrived but I'll probably use it with a Sm'd for main belaying and this one for the guide-mode.

There is a bit more curve through the basket so it might have slightly more resistance with double ropes which I didnt test yet.. But with a single rope in guide mode, American style, it is very impressively smooth.

I’ve been waiting for these to come back in stock. Where were you able to purchase one?

Grivel told me at the time of this review that they wouldn’t be available again in the US until October.

I actually can’t remember where I got it, I don’t seem to be able to find the email. It might even be from the Grivel online shop itself. It is available there now. I am located in Europe though so it might be different.

Here’s a picture next to a couple of other biners. I checked again and I have to say it’s not 100% round like I said, but more like 99% - there’s a tiny flat surface from the forging. But it is so small I could barely see it and it will definitely smooth off completely within 1 or two rappels on an older rope.

FYI this other grivel biner is super round also (66g), but I don’t like to use this sort for guide mode myself. It’s pretty cool for attaching devices for self belay stably in the correct orientation. Some people do like these ones with an extra clip for regular belaying though I believe. 

Any word on how effective the plume hms is? Very tempted by the double gate system and for the weight it seems like a no brainer. 

that guy named sebwrote:

Any word on how effective the plume hms is? Very tempted by the double gate system and for the weight it seems like a no brainer. 

I use it and like it. There was a learning curve for me because I’ve only ever used screw gates.

Works well with my Reverso belaying from above, but when lead belaying from below it has a tendency to rotate 180 degrees so that the rope is bearing on the more angular “bottom” of the carabiner. YMMV though it could just be my belaying technique. There really is no material negative to this, it works just fine flipped around.

I love how compact it is when racked with my Reverso. I will likely continue to use it.

I got a couple of the plume HMS a few months ago. I thought wow, there’s no other round stock HMS that’s lighter, why not try them out. I was surprised by the size, but I guess I shouldn’t have been given the weight. I think they must have a toddler holding it in the pictures LOL…anyway, got used to the dual gate pretty quick, and have been using them for belaying and general utitily for a few months.  They work great, smooth belaying, cloves and munters sit nicely, compact on the gear loops or as a tether biner. The only thing I haven’t done yet is a double rope rappel in one (just keep forgetting). I dunno if the narrower width might be a a bit pinchy, but probably not.  I got mine at Liberty Mtn. 

A few years ago, I bought Petzl's remaining inventory of round-stock Attache carabiners. They're mostly the blue HERA model, some have been used a handful of times.

They need to be in use, not stored!

I'll send you one of the ~15 if you:

• DM me your address,
• send a few bucks for postage (won't object if you include beer money), and
• promise to post a picture of it to this forum showing the carabiner in the wild so we can all admire it

EDIT: Fully allocated by now, thanks everyone!

Punter S Thompsonwrote:

A few years ago, I bought Petzl's remaining inventory of round-stock Attache carabiners. They're mostly the blue HERA model, some have been used a handful of times.

They need to be in use, not stored!

I'll send you one of the ~15 if you:

• DM me your address,
• send a few bucks for postage (won't object if you include beer money), and
• promise to post a picture of it to this forum showing the carabiner in the wild so we can all admire it

Punter, I DM’d ya! 

Punter S Thompsonwrote:

A few years ago, I bought Petzl's remaining inventory of round-stock Attache carabiners. They're mostly the blue HERA model, some have been used a handful of times.

They need to be in use, not stored!

I'll send you one of the ~15 if you:

• DM me your address,
• send a few bucks for postage (won't object if you include beer money), and
• promise to post a picture of it to this forum showing the carabiner in the wild so we can all admire it

Punter, I also messaged you!

Punter S Thompsonwrote:

A few years ago, I bought Petzl's remaining inventory of round-stock Attache carabiners. They're mostly the blue HERA model, some have been used a handful of times.

They need to be in use, not stored!

I'll send you one of the ~15 if you:

• DM me your address,
• send a few bucks for postage (won't object if you include beer money), and
• promise to post a picture of it to this forum showing the carabiner in the wild so we can all admire it

Dm. That’s sexier than handful of black totems!

Thanks again!

Andy Eiterwrote:

Thanks again!

Whoa whoa whoa buddy, TF am I looking at? You top belaying two people off your harness? Not even in guide mode? Kinda looks like the screw gate isn't even locked either.

Desert Rock Sportswrote:

Whoa whoa whoa buddy, TF am I looking at? You top belaying two people off your harness? Not even in guide mode? Kinda looks like the screw gate isn't even locked either.

Hi, pal. TF you are looking at is one person being belayed indirectly off my harness on half ropes and a fully-locked locker.

Desert Rock Sportswrote:

Whoa whoa whoa buddy, TF am I looking at? You top belaying two people off your harness? Not even in guide mode? Kinda looks like the screw gate isn't even locked either.

I was the only climber on the other end of those ropes. Andy’s biner was locked, if it wasn’t you’d see the red indicator. And he asked me to stop climbing on a comfy ledge before he snapped the pic. Climb was an easy, familiar climb.

No worries here! 

Andy Eiterwrote:

Hi, pal. TF you are looking at is one person being belayed indirectly off my harness on half ropes and a fully-locked locker.

AND you set up the ATC in the right orientation for belaying directly off the harness. 10/10. Would climb on this.

@ Andy Eiter.  

Not trying to be an A-hole, honest questions about your belay set up.  

First the set up:

In that picture it looks like you are at a belay, probably tied in with rope, PAS, whatever, and you have turned around, facing out from the wall, looking down the climb, or maybe you're kind of sideways.  Correct?  

It also looks like you've got your belay device clipped to your belay loop, brake slots facing up, rope running down to your partner, who is on the blue rope.  So to take in rope, you're kind of pulling up on the climber rope, and up and out on then bnrake strand, and then pulling the brake strand back toward your body into the brake position.  Correct?

My questions:

1-Do you have another partner on the red rope?  Are you belaying them up one at a time?

2-I can see this working.  I've probably done this myself a time or two!  What about if your partner(s) weights the rope? Would that put you in an awkward position?  I guess it would depend on how you're attached the the anchor.  For example, if you are attached by your belay loop to the anchor, the force of a climber on the rope could be in line with the anchor, and you might not be turned/twisted at all. 

3-Isn't this set up just a little akward to take in rope and manage everything?  Why not belay off your harness with a re-difect through the anchor, or just use guide mode?  

Maybe this was just easy terrain and this set-up felt the fastest and easiest?

Again, not trying to criticize, just wondering when/why one might choose this belay set up. 

Thanks.  

Google “rgold belay off harness” for example this thread 

Bruno Schullwrote:

@ Andy Eiter.  

Not trying to be an A-hole, honest questions about your belay set up.  

First the set up:

In that picture it looks like you are at a belay, probably tied in with rope, PAS, whatever, and you have turned around, facing out from the wall, looking down the climb, or maybe you're kind of sideways.  Correct?  

It also looks like you've got your belay device clipped to your belay loop, brake slots facing up, rope running down to your partner, who is on the blue rope.  So to take in rope, you're kind of pulling up on the climber rope, and up and out on then bnrake strand, and then pulling the brake strand back toward your body into the brake position.  Correct?

My questions:

1-Do you have another partner on the red rope?  Are you belaying them up one at a time?

2-I can see this working.  I've probably done this myself a time or two!  What about if your partner(s) weights the rope? Would that put you in an awkward position?  I guess it would depend on how you're attached the the anchor.  For example, if you are attached by your belay loop to the anchor, the force of a climber on the rope could be in line with the anchor, and you might not be turned/twisted at all. 

3-Isn't this set up just a little akward to take in rope and manage everything?  Why not belay off your harness with a re-difect through the anchor, or just use guide mode?  

Maybe this was just easy terrain and this set-up felt the fastest and easiest?

Again, not trying to criticize, just wondering when/why one might choose this belay set up. 

Thanks.  

Hey Bruno! Happy to answer!
Reading back my last response, it came off way more aggressive and way less jokey than I had meant. So, first off, apologies to Desert Rock Sports for breaking rule 1.

Setup

I am at the top of a flat tower. I have three pieces in. One behind me to my right, to which I’m cloved with one rope. Another two (equalized) behind me to my left, to which I’m cloved with the other rope. The ropes might be making about a ~70 degree angle: a little wide.

My partner is on both ropes. As he climbs I take up slack as you described.

1. I don’t have another partner on the red. If I did, I probably would’ve stopped at the ledge below and built an anchor better situated for a guide mode set up directly off the anchor.

2. I’ve had partners weight this type of set up and it ranged from totally fine to a bit uncomfortable. Since this was a single pitch climb we’ve both done before and it is well within our range, I was quite content with the set up. It’s also extremely quick to set up and easy on the arms to belay, which was a consideration for the last climb on a hot day.

3. I find this belay set up quite comfortable, particularly on flat top outs where the anchor is resting completely on the ground and running horizontally toward the edge. I’ve belayed off the ledge just below the top out, where you can get a nice chest level master point off which a direct or redirect belay works great. Among a couple other reasons I didn’t do it that way this time, there was a wasps nest at eye level.

So in conclusion, I’d say I like to use this set up over climbs on which I don’t think my partner will fall, when top-outs are flat (redirect or direct belays might be more awkward), and when escaping the belay/rescue isn’t much of a concern (e.g., crowded single pitch crags, places where you could lower to the ground/ledge). 

Do Americans usually not not how to belay directly off a harness? 

Andy Eiterwrote:

So in conclusion, I’d say I like to use this set up over climbs on which I don’t think my partner will fall, when top-outs are flat (redirect or direct belays might be more awkward), and when escaping the belay/rescue isn’t much of a concern (e.g., crowded single pitch crags, places where you could lower to the ground/ledge). 

I've belayed like this too and have had no issues. However, you can still redirect through an anchor on the ground. If you stand next to the ledge you where you can turn your head to either face the anchor or climber then it is pretty comfortable. You would probably need to protect the rope going over the ledge. This is a pretty common setup at Otter Cliff in Acadia.